Their findings, published in the Journal of Holography Applications in Physics, go beyond simply suggesting that we’re not living in a simulated world like The Matrix. They prove something far more profound: the universe is built on a type of understanding that exists beyond the reach of any algorithm.

  • kryptonianCodeMonkey@lemmy.world
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    2 days ago

    Gotta tell you, this sounds like bullshit. Godel’s incompleteness theorems prove that there are some questions that cannot be proven by axiom (or consequently, by algorithm). But that in no way rules out simulating our reality. Cuz I got news for you, Godel’s incompleteness theorems hold true here inthis universe too, my guys. And yet we still have a functioning universe.

    Godels proof only applies to mathematical abstracts like the nature of natural numbers. It shows that we will never have a complete, self consistent, provable description of things like natural numbers. But we still use them all the damn time, particularly in computation. And things that aren’t abstract? Things that can be observed, and described? That can all be simulated.

    Their argument seems to come down to the idea that you need a non-algorithmic higher order logic to have a universe. Insert whatever mystical unknowable source you want in there. Cool. We would still have that in a simulated universe, sourced from the universe doing the simulation. You dont have to recreate the nature of mathematics in this new universe to simulated it. The math already exists, and you apply it to the simulations. Godel’s theorems hold true, and observable physical nature is simulated without issue. The only thing that is actually difficult to simulate algorithmically is true randomness, but there are already plenty of ways to generate random numbers from measurements of our own physical world’s randomness, so this too can arise from the higher order world too.

    I’m not saying that I think we are actually in a simulation, I’m just saying that the aspects of this “proof” that they mention in the article seems very weak.

    • carmo55@lemmy.zip
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      21 hours ago

      From skimming through the actual paper, it seems that quantum gravity is a theory of physics, more general than general relativity, where spacetime itself is something that’s generated by a formal system of a formal language, a finite or small infinite set of axioms (fundamental physical laws) and rules for the creation of algorithms. What’s seemingly proved in the paper is that there are theorems in this system which cannot be proven, because they are too complex. But theorems in this sense mean states of spacetime or energy or whatever, meaning that ultra-complex states cannot be modelled with this model. And allegedly these kinds of ultra-complex states occur in high-energy situations.

      I’m not saying it’s gospel but the article isn’t as absurd as it first seems. Still I doubt this actually proves us not living in asimulation.

      • nickiwest@lemmy.world
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        20 hours ago

        We have demonstrated that it is impossible to describe all aspects of physical reality using a computational theory of quantum gravity …

        Okay, but isn’t that just evidence that the theory of quantum gravity doesn’t actually describe our universe?

        I’m getting real Principal Skinner vibes from this. “Is our theory so out of touch? No, it’s reality that is wrong.”