• Linkerbaan@lemmy.world
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    53
    arrow-down
    11
    ·
    5 months ago

    Making sure he pleads guilty to something that isn’t a crime equals America not having freedom of speech.

    • InfiniteGlitch@lemmy.dbzer0.com
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      32
      arrow-down
      6
      ·
      5 months ago

      With everything that’s going on in the world, I feel like “freedom of speech” doesn’t exist. It’s just a “buzz”.

      Just to name a few things;

      • You want to criticize Israel? Antisemitism!
      • You want to criticize US-related Israel things? Antisemitism!
      • You want to provide evidence of crimes? That’s a ‘crime’!
      • You are against killing innocent people? Antisemitism!
      • You want to protest? You disrupt the order and therefore a crime!

      Perhaps it is just me being pessimistic.

      • Sarmyth@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        5
        arrow-down
        4
        ·
        5 months ago

        You’ve just misunderstood what freedom of speech is. The government won’t jail you for your opinions. You can say whatever you want that isn’t a threat or call to violence.

        Let’s be real though. That’s why people get to call you names when they disagree with you. They also have that same protected speech.

        Protesting is a thing you are doing while exercising your free speech. However, you can be doing 2 things at once. Exercising your free speech while committing the crime of trespassing, etc. That one right doesn’t make you legally immune to anything else you’re doing.

        Of course, people commit crimes while protesting to give their protest some teeth, and in some cases to bring attention to the law they might be protesting. But you should be prepared to be fined and arrested during spicy protests. People sitting in the road acting shocked they get hit and dragged away just make me feel like I’m looking at too many shocked Pikachus. You should expect it. That’s why you are there. If you didn’t face violence you aren’t really showing how strongly you feel. That’s what it means to stand against opposition.

      • Maggoty@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        2
        arrow-down
        2
        ·
        5 months ago

        Don’t make me break out my argument about how the bill of rights is a dead letter. Every single one, including the third.

    • SwingingTheLamp@midwest.social
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      20
      arrow-down
      5
      ·
      5 months ago

      Worse, it validates the precedent that non-U.S.-citizens can be prosecuted for breaking U.S. law over things they did outside of the U.S.

      Really happy that Assange gets to go home, since he’s suffered enough personally, but I really don’t like the precedent that I can be prosecuted in, say, Israel under Israeli law for things that I did in Wisconsin (e.g. boycotting).

      • Maggoty@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        6
        arrow-down
        7
        ·
        5 months ago

        Don’t solicit Israeli soldiers to become assets and give you classified information you will then edit to make Israel look as bad as possible?

        He acted as a spy in every way.

        • Linkerbaan@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          8
          arrow-down
          3
          ·
          edit-2
          5 months ago

          There are reports of mass violations being committed against hostages in israeli concentration camps such as the one in the Negev desert. Which is now closed (moved elsewhere) because of all the reports coming out

          Are you saying they should arrest the journalists that wrote those reports?

          • Maggoty@lemmy.world
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            3
            arrow-down
            4
            ·
            5 months ago

            No. There is a massive difference between journalists and Assange. He didn’t solicit evidence of crimes. He solicited any and all classified information. Then he straight up edited the stuff he did get to make it look like the US was committing war crimes. He also released diplomatic cables entirely calculated to damage the ability of the US to conduct diplomacy. Finally he straight up interfered in an election by releasing private emails that were hacked by Russian Intelligence. Not one to leave things to chance, he didn’t exactly edit them this time. (That backfired hard when the Army just released all the footage and reports) Instead he added editorial titles to email chains he knew no one was really going to dig through. Just enough cover so conservative outlets could run attack ads and articles using his product.

            Let me know when the NYT does all of that.

              • Maggoty@lemmy.world
                link
                fedilink
                English
                arrow-up
                3
                arrow-down
                4
                ·
                5 months ago

                Yes, and I’ve seen the full video and Army reports debunking it. That’s why it never went anywhere outside the far left and Russia/China. He had to literally edit the video and create an out of context snuff film before it suited his purposes.

                  • Maggoty@lemmy.world
                    link
                    fedilink
                    English
                    arrow-up
                    2
                    arrow-down
                    1
                    ·
                    5 months ago

                    I have in fact seen it. Multiple times. They embedded with anti coalition forces that were shadowing that convoy for hours. Embedding on either side is always a roll of the dice in a war zone. But nobody is going to eat an RPG because of Schroedinger’s reporter. And yes it was an RPG, the ground forces found them afterwards and took pictures.

                    At the end of the day those reporters made a bad decision in a place that didn’t have any room for bad decisions. That’s all there is to it.

    • Maggoty@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      17
      arrow-down
      4
      ·
      5 months ago

      Espionage is 100% a crime. You may disagree with it being a crime but it’s illegal in every country.

      • Linkerbaan@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        7
        arrow-down
        9
        ·
        edit-2
        5 months ago

        Revealing Chinese war crimes is also a crime in China.

        If China forcefully extradites an American journalists because the journalist leaks secret Chinese state documents of Uyghur concentration camps… would you be defending China because the journalist did something “illegal”?

        • Maggoty@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          9
          arrow-down
          2
          ·
          5 months ago

          Well no, because one of the rules for extradition is both countries must consider it a crime.

          And before you answer, I’m pretty sure China has done exactly this from countries friendly to them. Which falls under the heading of journalists needing to be aware of the realities of where they’re going. It’s just not American journalists because we still have a bigger stick for now.

          So again, let me know when the NYT is running information operations to discredit China. Exposing Human Rights violations is not what Assange is guilty of.

          • Linkerbaan@lemmy.world
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            4
            arrow-down
            6
            ·
            edit-2
            5 months ago

            Well no, because one of the rules for extradition is both countries must consider it a crime.

            No that’s not true. Only the country demanding the extradition has to mark someone as a criminal. Often extradition treaties are made so if one country marks someone as a criminal and they flee somewhere else, that country will deliver them the criminal. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extradition

            In this case America is heavily abusing the extradition treaty by marking a journalist as a criminal because he leaked evidence of war crimes.

            I’m pretty sure China has done exactly this from countries friendly to them.

            Accusing America of violating press freedom doesn’t mean I’m somehow defending Chinese press freedom. There’s a reason I’m equating America to China here.

            • Maggoty@lemmy.world
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              8
              arrow-down
              4
              ·
              5 months ago

              Assange is not a journalist. Again, let me know when the NYT does what he did. It’s detailed in the comment above.

              And yes, a country can always exercise its sovereignty. There is no physical means of forcing an extradition short of using military power.

              • Linkerbaan@lemmy.world
                link
                fedilink
                English
                arrow-up
                5
                arrow-down
                8
                ·
                5 months ago

                Strange that all journalists call Assange a journalist.

                So you’re saying anyone leaking classified israeli documents of war crimes is a criminal?

                • Maggoty@lemmy.world
                  link
                  fedilink
                  English
                  arrow-up
                  6
                  arrow-down
                  5
                  ·
                  edit-2
                  5 months ago

                  That’s not true. Some people who call themselves journalists call Assange a journalist.

                  Here’s the comment you have yet to substantively respond to.

                  So when the NYT colludes with Russian hackers and a campaign to interfere with elections I’ll call Assange a journalist.

      • MataVatnik@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        3
        arrow-down
        1
        ·
        5 months ago

        No it was more than that, he actively helped Chelsea hack into files she didn’t have access to. He literally hacked into classified databases of the US military. Much worse than leaking info.

    • MataVatnik@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      10
      arrow-down
      9
      ·
      edit-2
      5 months ago

      He was not in trouble for leaking information. He literally helped Chelsea hack into classified files she didn’t have access to, he actively participated in breaching security inside the US military. Very illegal no matter where you stand.

      • Linkerbaan@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        11
        arrow-down
        4
        ·
        edit-2
        5 months ago

        This is just blatantly false. Repeating government propaganda doesn’t make it true. He did not hack the military he told someone what a VPN is.

        • MataVatnik@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          7
          arrow-down
          6
          ·
          5 months ago

          Alright it take it back, he tried to help crack a password, but he likely failed. Looks like he was still actively pushing Chelsea to gather more classified info. I’m sorry but this is not the behavior of a journalist

          In a pretrial hearing in Manning’s case, prosecutors presented evidence that Manning had asked Assange—who was instant messaging with Manning under the name Nathaniel Frank—if he had experience cracking hashes. Assange allegedly responded that he possessed rainbow tables for that, and Manning sent him a hashed password string. According to Thursday’s unsealed indictment, Assange followed up two days later asking for more information about the password, and writing that he’d had “no luck so far.” The indictment further alleges that Assange actively encouraged Manning to gather even more information, after Manning said she had given all she had.

          It’s not clear if Assange ever successfully cracked the password. According to the indictment, that password would have given Manning administrative privileges on SIPRNet, allowing her to pull more files from it while concealing the traces of her leaks from investigators.

          • Linkerbaan@lemmy.world
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            8
            arrow-down
            4
            ·
            edit-2
            5 months ago

            You’ve got a giant nothing burger there don’t keep digging deeper.

            There’s a reason all serious journalists are defending Assagne and describing the case against him as a very dangerous precedent against press freedom.