Yawn, this again.
As I thought, pulled from your ass and the same cheap tricks they try to claim with this pact.
A non-aggression treaty is not “split Europe between them”
You might want to read the whole first sentence of the article lol
was a non-aggression pact between Nazi Germany and the Soviet Union, with a secret protocol establishing Soviet and German spheres of influence across Eastern Europe.
LOL Maybe you should learn that Wikipedia is not a source and proven to be extremely biased and manipulated.
You don’t even know that.
And even that Wiki page doesn’t cite sources, something you need if you don’t want to be seen as just making shit up, which you clearly are.
You claim it’s in that pact, then go to the absolute source and show me where it is.
Wikipedia just has approachable articles, so I linked to that since you seemingly hadn’t heard of the pact. It cites sources like so [1] for further reading. And the existence of such pact has been admitted to in Germany, Soviet Union and later in Russia. Its existence isn’t exactly controversial. It’s rather how justified it was that’s argued about.
You claim it’s in that pact, then go to the absolute source and show me where it is.
Here’s the original texts [1], [2]. If you want an English translation, plenty of them online. Heres’ one (pdf). The secret protocols are at the end.
I’ve been to school and it’s invariably mentioned to make the BS claims you make.
And I probably know better than you how Wikipedia works.
NONE of the references show what they claim.
The original texts talk about ‘spheres of influence’ in the tiny Baltics andthe rest is only about Poland.
It even says:
" The question of whether the interests of both parties make desirable the maintenance of an
independent Polish States and how such a state should be bounded can only be definitely
determined in the course of further political developments."
That hardly sounds like ‘dividing Europe between them’.
I could call that a deliberate misinterpretation.
If you want countries making deals with the nazis that literally say they can annex them even look to the Brits and France.
“Czechoslovakia must surrender its border regions and and defenses to Nazi Germany” is more like it.
Funny how they never mention that or the dozen of other pacts with nazis, all of them before the Soviets.
I mean they are literally drawing spheres of interest (even using the word) in there on how they’ll divide those countries. And then after the deal, they conquered and subjugated their subjective areas (or tried to, in case of Finland). Your objection to that not being them dividing Europe between them is, not to be insulting, kinda silly.
I mean if anything at least you’re not trying to deny such an agreement, you’re just reading it in a very interesting way. That’s something.
As I said ‘spheres of influence and still having the option of having an independent state in Poland’ sounds a lot less bad than simply handing over Sudetenland.
Complaining about only one and ignoring the worse other one is hypocritical at best.
And imagine blaming the Soviets for going in to countries aligned with nazis.
Like Finland, where you’re probably are from and explains your bias.
Friend, the “independent Polish state” isn’t a serious suggestion of it being independent… It’s discussing something akin to “Independent State of Croatia”, as in a puppet state.
sounds a lot less bad
I guess that’s progress from “didn’t happen”. In any case, I just mentioned that the pact happened. If you want my opinion on other deals made with Nazis, they’re also morally very dubious.
And imagine blaming the Soviets for going in to countries aligned with nazis.
Like Finland, where you’re probably are from and explains your bias.
That’s quite the ex post facto justification. Before and during Winter War it wasn’t Finland but the USSR that was aligned with Nazi Germany (see the pact we discussed). Nazi Germany sold Finland to USSR, after all. Finland was aligned towards UK and France. It was as a result of the war that Finland turned to Nazi Germany (the secret protocols weren’t known at the time) and that Nazi Germany got interested in Finland.
But in any case, I just wanted to point out that the pact between USSR and Nazi-Germany did happen. How bad it is comparatively, I’m sure there’s a fruitful conversation to be had about that, but it’s sorta out of scope on what I was hoping to discuss tbh.
Not sure if you’re joking but https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Molotov–Ribbentrop_Pact
Yawn, this again.
As I thought, pulled from your ass and the same cheap tricks they try to claim with this pact.
A non-aggression treaty is not “split Europe between them”
Wait I’ll return the favor:
Here is the deal between the nazis and their friends from England to split Europe between them.
https://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item/object/1030005003
You might want to read the whole first sentence of the article lol
LOL Maybe you should learn that Wikipedia is not a source and proven to be extremely biased and manipulated.
You don’t even know that.
And even that Wiki page doesn’t cite sources, something you need if you don’t want to be seen as just making shit up, which you clearly are.
You claim it’s in that pact, then go to the absolute source and show me where it is.
Wikipedia just has approachable articles, so I linked to that since you seemingly hadn’t heard of the pact. It cites sources like so [1] for further reading. And the existence of such pact has been admitted to in Germany, Soviet Union and later in Russia. Its existence isn’t exactly controversial. It’s rather how justified it was that’s argued about.
Here’s the original texts [1], [2]. If you want an English translation, plenty of them online. Heres’ one (pdf). The secret protocols are at the end.
I’ve been to school and it’s invariably mentioned to make the BS claims you make.
And I probably know better than you how Wikipedia works.
NONE of the references show what they claim.
The original texts talk about ‘spheres of influence’ in the tiny Baltics andthe rest is only about Poland.
It even says:
" The question of whether the interests of both parties make desirable the maintenance of an independent Polish States and how such a state should be bounded can only be definitely determined in the course of further political developments."
That hardly sounds like ‘dividing Europe between them’.
I could call that a deliberate misinterpretation.
If you want countries making deals with the nazis that literally say they can annex them even look to the Brits and France. “Czechoslovakia must surrender its border regions and and defenses to Nazi Germany” is more like it.
Funny how they never mention that or the dozen of other pacts with nazis, all of them before the Soviets.
I mean they are literally drawing spheres of interest (even using the word) in there on how they’ll divide those countries. And then after the deal, they conquered and subjugated their subjective areas (or tried to, in case of Finland). Your objection to that not being them dividing Europe between them is, not to be insulting, kinda silly.
I mean if anything at least you’re not trying to deny such an agreement, you’re just reading it in a very interesting way. That’s something.
As I said ‘spheres of influence and still having the option of having an independent state in Poland’ sounds a lot less bad than simply handing over Sudetenland.
Complaining about only one and ignoring the worse other one is hypocritical at best.
And imagine blaming the Soviets for going in to countries aligned with nazis.
Like Finland, where you’re probably are from and explains your bias.
Friend, the “independent Polish state” isn’t a serious suggestion of it being independent… It’s discussing something akin to “Independent State of Croatia”, as in a puppet state.
I guess that’s progress from “didn’t happen”. In any case, I just mentioned that the pact happened. If you want my opinion on other deals made with Nazis, they’re also morally very dubious.
That’s quite the ex post facto justification. Before and during Winter War it wasn’t Finland but the USSR that was aligned with Nazi Germany (see the pact we discussed). Nazi Germany sold Finland to USSR, after all. Finland was aligned towards UK and France. It was as a result of the war that Finland turned to Nazi Germany (the secret protocols weren’t known at the time) and that Nazi Germany got interested in Finland.
But in any case, I just wanted to point out that the pact between USSR and Nazi-Germany did happen. How bad it is comparatively, I’m sure there’s a fruitful conversation to be had about that, but it’s sorta out of scope on what I was hoping to discuss tbh.