So?

What matters is winning elections.

Stomping our feet and saying they should do what we tell them isn’t fucking working.

So if you want them to vote D so together we can stop Rs…

Maybe we should try running a better candidate than we have been?

Maybe no matter how much the wealthy insist on it, just being slightly better than trump isn’t enough.

Maybe we should just run the best candidate we can, one that already agrees with Dem voters so we don’t have to ask millions of people to hold their nose?

The excuse for running candidates further to the right then Dem voters has always been that it would magically win an election.

It hasn’t, and it won’t.

It’s a bad strategy and we’ve stuck with it for about a decade longer than we should have already.

What logical reason can you give to stick with a plan that even when it works doesn’t get us as much as we need, and fails regularly?

As a bonus, the more Dems move right, the more Republicans do.

So every election Dem voters have their potential winnings reduced and potential loses increased…

And people are really surprised why turnout was low?!

Ya, CCCP started it all with Hitler

Whut?

Is this an attempt at a joke or do you really believe that?

It’s hard to tell these days when someone is just pretending

No, this is the voter she pissed off Dem voters for…

It didn’t work out well if you’ve already forgotten.

If someone says trump is Hitler but they voted for him anyways…

Then he was already going to vote for trump, and chasing his vote just led to losing traditional Dem voters with literally no gain.

Moving to the right is political suicide, yet we keep doing it because that’s how you max donations. And that’s all the people running the party care about.

It’s like people really believe America entered WW2 to fight fascism becaus Americans are innately good…

Large amounts of the country said the same shit this guy is. They wanted to either stay out of it or outright join the nazis.

Especially the wealthy. Prescott Bush was believed to be part of the Business Plot that wanted to overthrow the US government in favor of fascism and doing the Axis powers.

They didn’t succeed (mostly because of Pearl Harbor) but his son became head of the CIA, VP, and then president. One of his sons also became president, and almost another one.

If we don’t remember what history was really like, we’re doomed to keep being surprised when the same shit keeps happening.

These are the orchestrators of the Armenian genocide, so this barely makes the top 10 of reason the ruling family (basically a monarchy) are cunts.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Azerbaijan#Government_and_politics

Especially since they’ve restarted the genocide:

https://www.cnn.com/2023/08/11/asia/nagorno-karabakh-armenians-genocide-intl-hnk/index.html

someone who thinks both party’s won’t help

So this entire slog I’ve went thru to help you understand…

Is because when someone says:

Apple pie is delicious

You take that as a statement of fact and not their opinion because they didn’t say:

I think Apple pie is delicious.

There is nothing I can do to help you here or with anything else you may have difficulty with in the future.

Can you point out where they say “if wage earners think both parties won’t help”?

To avoid confusion because it seems likely:

If you’re a wage earner in this country, your life does not change in any significant way based on who we elect, so why skip a badly needed day’s pay to vote? There’s just no point

A more indepth response:

What you linked:

Weird. A bug in the app switched up my replies.

What I intended to say was:

I can understand. If you’re a wage earner in this country, your life does not change in any significant way based on who we elect, so why skip a badly needed day’s pay to vote? There’s just no point.

And when you point this out to other people, all you get in response are excuses.

They’re explicitly saying that the people whom didn’t vote, didn’t vote because both parties are too similar and won’t help. They’re saying those people need more than “not trump” to vote D.

I’m struggling to see where your confusion is coming from.

If this still doesn’t make sense, can you try asking for clarification in greater detail?

It just seems so obvious to me.

And this isn’t a new conversation, we’ve been having it since 2016, it’s been 8 years man… Hell, really 12 because we started seeing the drop in 2012 when we realized Obama wasn’t who he said in 08

What aren’t you getting about this?

Like, this is the bare bones basics of modern political history in America… Go back decades and the most likely response from a non voter about why they didn’t vote is “neither party will actually help”.

You never learned any of this stuff, like, ever?___

So, the issue is you’re not understanding what people are saying…

You’re thinking they said something they didn’t and you’re getting upset about nothing.

Did you link the wrong comment?

What you linked is just someone saying they can understand why someone who thinks both party’s won’t help, won’t be likely to vote.

I think you’re confusing me for someone else

I voted D like I always do, so have most progressive on here from what I’ve seen them say.

What me, and them, have been saying is that Biden and Harris had our votes, but every indication show d they wouldn’t get enough to beat trump.

It’s fine to be upset about that, we are too. Probably more than any moderate, we’re literally losing more than you all, that’s why we care.

But what’s scary is this has all happened before. Moderates refuse to acknowledge they’re unpopular with Dem voters, and rather than reach out to progressives for help reaching non-votera…

You all just seemed obsessed with turning more Dem voters away from the party.

Maybe if you stopped focusing so much on the negatives, and started promoting positive change, people wouldn’t argue with you so much.

The change we need is better Dem candidates, how the absolute fuck will that happen if we’re not allowed to acknowledge we keep running shitty candidates?

Do you even remember how a fair and open primary is supposed to work?

How is one of those ever possible if no one is allowed to criticize the party’s favorite?

Ok…

Weird this hasn’t come up before for you.

But different people have different standards.

For Republican voters, it’s usually just the letter by someone’s name.

Dem voters have always had higher standards than Republican voters.

For bonus points, how is it not the voters fault

Because the entire point of a candidates campaign is to get votes. And Kamala and her campaign couldn’t even beat fucking trump.

For all those reasons you just listed he’s terrible, Kamala still couldn’t beat him.

What metric do you think a candidate and their campaign should be judged by except number of votes?

Bonus points:

Why don’t you think a shit tier opponent wouldnt make it easier? And how can a candidate who can’t beat trump not be considered “garbage”?

Why do so many “moderates” insist on acting like the politically engaged people they run into online are the same people who are were so politically disengaged this year that they just didn’t vote?

Like, could you please explain the thinking that someone wouldn’t vote and then keep spending free time talking about it?

It’s not just you, and you’re not the first one I asked.

But everyone else just down votes me for asking and never respond.

Did you see what happened in 2008?

A progressive won and if he hadn’t ignored the DNC because they screwed him he could have changed leadership and made lasting change to the party!

The same people wouldn’t be in charge and they wouldn’t be grifting their cut off billionaire’s bribes.

For the people running the DNC the only real loss would be a progressive winning, that’s why they keep taking steps since then to ensure there’s no chance of their pick losing again .

We ain’t fighting the same fight as them. They’re fine with a republican winning, hell, it drives up donations.

She does, so does Biden, just not to the extent trump will.

It’s fucked up the DNC insisted on taking support of genocide as a binary topic out of this election.

Just think, if they cared more about votes than dark money from a foreign government, trump might not be president elect right now. That was always an option you know? Giving Dem voters what they wanted, not just on this issues but multiple others.

Do you think the gamble was worth it now?

Are you willing to do anything different in four years?

It’s all about where you live and what you look like.

I’m a huge white dude in a red state, I’ve been getting hit on by nazis since before I was a teenager because I look like their “ideal”.

Like, when they picture their “master race” it’s what I look like, so they always fucking assume I’ll agree with any side comment they make.

If you’re not in a super blue area, you’re not hearing stuff because something identifies you as “them” and not “us”. But even in blue areas I’ll hear shit.

You realize the person you replied to already said they voted D…

Right?

But even if they didn’t explicitly state it, the ones who didn’t hold their nose aren’t going to be hanging out on political forums.

Why would they?

They’re politically disengaged because “both parties are the same”.

The way to get them involved is moving the party to the left, not the right like we have been. It’s always a great time to start, and the job is never over.

The billionaires won’t stop buying off both parties, we gotta try to save at least one party.

The thing is, you’re still falling for propaganda, and after the recent election I just don’t have the patience to try and talk you out of it

So you think the 8-15 million potential voters so politically disengaged that they didn’t vote…

Spend their time hanging out on political forums?

The people you see online talking about it are politically engaged, which is why almost all of us voted D like every other election since we’ve been 18.

The ones you’re mad at will never see your insults.

And pointing out this years strategy was fucking stupid does still matter.

It mattered more years ago when we had plenty of time before the 2024 election, but it matters today for the 2028 election.too

Our country can’t afford the only options to be fascists and halfway fascists, we can’t keep moving to the right and expect anything to change

You forget the last part of the trick:

Double down, blame everyone else, go even further to the right. Then collect an even bigger check from billionaires

The DNC doesn’t exist to get Dems in office, it’s only purpose these days is to make sure when the billionaires lose, they just win a little less then they would have.

At this point there’s no other explanation for why they’re so fucking bad at getting a Dem elected.

I don’t think you understood a single thing I’ve typed…