The head of the Signal app has criticized plans in the EU to allow messengers to have backdoors to enable automatic searches for criminal content. Signal is considered one of the most secure messengers.
Signal is nice because it has a pretty good adoption rate even with non techies (which is why they’ve been mentioned by name in the chat control proposal). But privacy enthusiasts will still have briar/simplechat/xmpp. Those aren’t centralised like Signal and will be a lot harder to regulate
It’s great as long as you can guarantee that the person you’re communicating on the receiving side does the same. Otherwise it’s useless as your messages will be read on the receiving device. In practice it will make private communication extremely cumbersome and niche.
Also, the authorities can backdoor your custom ROM device at will, when seized.
Not quite; Chat Control hearkens back to Apple’s doomed attempt at on-device CSAM filtering - the idea is that on-device images and message contents would be scanned for known hashes. This means a nation state could go fishing on devices for known content, but it wouldn’t allow them to indiscriminately sift through all the content at rest — they’d have to know what they were looking for.
That’s where the steganography comes in, because the hash based approach will fail if the content they’re looking for is obscured in some manner.
They will begin so, but the regulation means the authorities can backdoor your device way easier than they can today. It doesn’t mean your custom ROM device will be free of the scanning software forever.
It also means that you need to know that the receiving device you’re communicating with is clean custom ROM device, otherwise your messages will be scanned on the receiving side.
The regulation is a complete shitshow privacy nightmare hiding under CSAM trenchcoat. We’d do well to organize and fight against it, instead of trying to back down to the perceived safety of esoteric custom ROMs.
I like to be in control of what happens on the hardware I own and what services I use. If given no choice I will cease using them altogether.
I agree that the law is an absolute shitshow, but with the recent speedrun to totalitarianism we should not fool ourselved that it won’t be passed. It will be, eventually.
It doesn’t hurt to start digging the trenches meanwhile. For it is a war.
You won’t be able to install those apps soon after Android bans sideloading of apps that aren’t signed, or bans sideloading of apps that are not from the playstore itself.
I don’t think privacy enthusiasts use vanilla Android. People will stick to Lineage/Graphene for as long as it works and then switch to something like Postmarket. It’s already in a state where it’s rough but usable.
Yes, but not everyone they want to talk to will go through that effort. It’s already hard enough to convince someone to download another messaging app that they will only use with you.
If signal pulls out of Europe we’re in a pretty fucked state. Apps like signal will be reduced to operations it a few fringe countries eventually
Signal is nice because it has a pretty good adoption rate even with non techies (which is why they’ve been mentioned by name in the chat control proposal). But privacy enthusiasts will still have briar/simplechat/xmpp. Those aren’t centralised like Signal and will be a lot harder to regulate
ChatControl 2.0, if passed means your entire device is backdoored so it doesn’t matter what apps you installl, they can get your info pre-encryption
Custom roms is your best bed at that point. I do use GOS already.
It’s great as long as you can guarantee that the person you’re communicating on the receiving side does the same. Otherwise it’s useless as your messages will be read on the receiving device. In practice it will make private communication extremely cumbersome and niche.
Also, the authorities can backdoor your custom ROM device at will, when seized.
I mean I don’t see them back dooring GOS anytime soon. But your right both ends need to have a custom ROM.
Steganography. There’s more than one way to protect your communication.
And encryption in transit is better than no encryption at all (assuming the baddies don’t already have full access to your phone data).
That’s the whole point of Chat Control 2.0
Not quite; Chat Control hearkens back to Apple’s doomed attempt at on-device CSAM filtering - the idea is that on-device images and message contents would be scanned for known hashes. This means a nation state could go fishing on devices for known content, but it wouldn’t allow them to indiscriminately sift through all the content at rest — they’d have to know what they were looking for.
That’s where the steganography comes in, because the hash based approach will fail if the content they’re looking for is obscured in some manner.
Just a matter of time as soon as it gets passed. https://balkaninsight.com/2023/09/29/europol-sought-unlimited-data-access-in-online-child-sexual-abuse-regulation/
Didn’t know they come with sleeping facilities. They’re so versatile nowadays! SCNR
😅🤣
Unless you outlaw alternative ROMs some devices will be not backdoored.
They will begin so, but the regulation means the authorities can backdoor your device way easier than they can today. It doesn’t mean your custom ROM device will be free of the scanning software forever.
It also means that you need to know that the receiving device you’re communicating with is clean custom ROM device, otherwise your messages will be scanned on the receiving side.
The regulation is a complete shitshow privacy nightmare hiding under CSAM trenchcoat. We’d do well to organize and fight against it, instead of trying to back down to the perceived safety of esoteric custom ROMs.
I like to be in control of what happens on the hardware I own and what services I use. If given no choice I will cease using them altogether. I agree that the law is an absolute shitshow, but with the recent speedrun to totalitarianism we should not fool ourselved that it won’t be passed. It will be, eventually. It doesn’t hurt to start digging the trenches meanwhile. For it is a war.
ChatControl 2.0 will mean that phones localized outside of Europe will sell at a premium.
You won’t be able to install those apps soon after Android bans sideloading of apps that aren’t signed, or bans sideloading of apps that are not from the playstore itself.
What then?
I don’t think privacy enthusiasts use vanilla Android. People will stick to Lineage/Graphene for as long as it works and then switch to something like Postmarket. It’s already in a state where it’s rough but usable.
Europe: Companies can’t lock down your operating system.
Also Europe: Companies must force back doors into their operating systems.
I wonder how long those two things can coexist.
Well, Google’s current behaviour is already putting the future existence of F-Droid into question.
We need FOSS phones badly and in numbers that manufacturing isn’t horrible. That is until our governments force carriers not to connect them.
If I could find a reasonably priced 8" Linux tablet, I’d sell my phone and buy a cellular wifi AP.
You can spoof IMEI and pretend your phone is an old iPhone. Carriers wouldn’t know.
Yes, but not everyone they want to talk to will go through that effort. It’s already hard enough to convince someone to download another messaging app that they will only use with you.
“privacy enthusiasts” not everybody can do that. also remember that privacy is a spectrum.
We still have Matrix.