• Ibuthyr@feddit.org
    1·
    10分前

    Shut the fuck up. You’re the reason why people hate the idea of socialism/communism because they think that those people are all like you: propagandist cunts.

  • rustyfish@piefed.worldEnglish
    2521·
    12時間前

    Crying about it constantly doesn’t make a genocide fictitious. They’re both real. Shut up.

    Bitch.

    • Cowbee [he/they]@lemmy.ml
      233·
      12時間前

      No, China is not commiting genocide. The best and most comprehensive resource I have seen so far is Qiao Collective’s Xinjiang: A Resource and Report Compilation. Qiao Collective is explicitly pro-PRC, but this is an extremely comprehensive write-up of the entire background of the events, the timeline of reports, and real and fake claims.

      I also recommend reading the UN report and China’s response to it. These are the most relevant accusations and responses without delving into straight up fantasy like Adrian Zenz, professional propagandist for the Victims of Communism Foundation, does.

      Tourists do go to Xinjiang all the time as well. You can watch videos like this one on YouTube, though it obviously isn’t going to be a comprehensive view of a complex situation like this. Even with all of the real complexities, though, nothing material measures up to claims of genocide.

      • stinky@redlemmy.comEnglish
        714·
        12時間前

        https://www.globalr2p.org/countries/china/

        While the OHCHR assessment (Aug 31, 2022) does not indicate genocide, its authors are being pedantic. The findings you cited indicate crimes against humanity including reproductive-rights abuses. (click “UN report and China’s response to it” then scroll to the bottom to download the PDF) They might not be lining them up in the streets and shooting them, but they ARE trying to exterminate them, and treat them as less than human in the process. Whether the report authors use the word “genocide” is immaterial.

        Read the report yourself, you’ll see that what’s happening is unchecked criminal, inhumane activity directed at the Uyghur population and other predominantly Muslim ethnic minority communities in Xinjiang.

        • Cowbee [he/they]@lemmy.ml
          161·
          12時間前

          No, this is wrong, the PRC is not exterminating Urghurs. Uyghurs were, as ethnic minorities, exempted from the one child policy, and now have better access to things like IUDs for proper family planning. The PRC is not trying to exterminate Uyghurs, your claims are fantastical.

            • Cowbee [he/they]@lemmy.ml
              151·
              11時間前

              I cited it as a beginning of understanding the allegations, which you yourself go above and beyond into fantasy by claiming China is “trying to exterminate the Uyghurs.” Did you read China’s response, or the Qiao Collective’s resource compilation?

              • Coopr8@kbin.earth
                27·
                8時間前

                ["While individual women have spoken out before about forced birth control, the practice is far more widespread and systematic than previously known, according to an AP investigation based on government statistics, state documents and interviews with 30 ex-detainees, family members and a former detention camp instructor. The campaign over the past four years in the far west region of Xinjiang is leading to what some experts are calling a form of “demographic genocide.”

                The state regularly subjects minority women to pregnancy checks, and forces intrauterine devices, sterilization and even abortion on hundreds of thousands, the interviews and data show. Even while the use of IUDs and sterilization has fallen nationwide, it is rising sharply in Xinjiang."]( https://apnews.com/article/ap-top-news-international-news-weekend-reads-china-health-269b3de1af34e17c1941a514f78d764c#%3A~%3Atext=The+Chinese+government+is+taking%2Cmajority+to+have+more+children)

                • Cowbee [he/they]@lemmy.ml
                  9·
                  8時間前

                  The hundreds of millions of dollars the government pours into birth control has transformed Xinjiang from one of China’s fastest-growing regions to among its slowest in just a few years, according to new research obtained by The Associated Press in advance of publication by China scholar Adrian Zenz.

                  “This kind of drop is unprecedented…there’s a ruthlessness to it,” said Zenz, a leading expert in the policing of China’s minority regions. “This is part of a wider control campaign to subjugate the Uighurs.”

                  You’re citing the very same professional propagandist for the Victims of Communism Foundation I spoke of earlier. This is not a real source, it’s fiction. Here’s a decent source going over Zenz and his background as a propagandist.

                  IUD usage is increasing as Xinjiang develops economically and family planning becomes more important. The Uyghur people were exempt from the One Child Policy, and as a consequence the increase in IUD usage seems more drastic than it actually is, plus Zenz was caught literally making up numbers.

              • stinky@redlemmy.comEnglish
                312·
                11時間前

                Did you not read my comment? I posted a link to the assessment which has an annex containing China’s response.

                … how old are you? if you don’t mind me asking

                • Cowbee [he/they]@lemmy.ml
                  141·
                  11時間前

                  I do mind you asking, and yes, I do understand what you linked. I’ve read the report, and again, did you read China’s response, and did you read Qiao Collective’s resources? The PRC is not exterminating Uyghurs, again, read the response itself and Qiao Collective’s resources. Read section 25 of China’s response.

        • Armand1@lemmy.world
          312·
          10時間前

          Reading your source, it sure sounds like genocide.

          That said, it seems like a summary rather than a detailed report and I can’t find the source in the page.

          The other people responding to you are saying “did you read the statement by the perpetrators of the genocide denying it?” Sounds like a rather silly statement.

          Can’t really weigh in on this but on the face of it it does feel like tankie behaviour.

          EDIT: I’ve now skimmed the UN Human Rights report and it’s definitely genocide. The only possible claim against this is that all of their information is false, which seems unlikely.

          I’ll also add that the first response above linking to the UN source I’ve seen copy pasted elsewhere. That doesn’t necessarily mean much but, yeah.

          • Cowbee [he/they]@lemmy.ml
            12·
            10時間前

            Are countries not allowed to offer evidence to clear their name of allegations against them? Are independent groups not allowed to create detailed compilations of resources that go more in-depth than the UN report or China’s response? I don’t think it’s a bad thing that leftists offer counter-evidence to western allegations. China isn’t just saying “no lol” in their response, they provided data and evidence backing up their case.

            In a legal battle, do you only listen to evidence from the side accusing the defendant? Only skimming only the accusation seems like you genuinely aren’t interested in the truth of the matter and only want an excuse to agree with the accusation.

            As for copying and pasting, yes, I reuse the same comment for the same low-effort claims, because it’s still useful. I’m not going to bespoke craft a new response with the same evidence and support for essentially the same claims.

    • stinky@redlemmy.comEnglish
      220·
      12時間前

      I’m tired of the crying too.

      “Leftists” just complain about Liberals not accomplishing anything despite having achieved nothing themselves. They’re not even on the ballot lol. They’re not funded or organized. And they have all this contempt for everyone else. I wouldn’t want to be associated with them because they’re all such whiny unaccomplished losers.

  • abbadon420@sh.itjust.works
    217·
    12時間前

    Please prove yourself by walking in traditional uyghur clothing with an uyghur flag in a city like kashgar and live stream the event. Prove how accepting the general public is and how the police will treat you respectfully.

      • Coopr8@kbin.earth
        210·
        10時間前

        Many people said the same of Berlin, Hamburg, and other German cities while Jews were kept as slaves in factories and trained out to camps to be gassed. A nice looking city says nothing about the treatment of minorities. In fact many of the “nicest cities” in the world were built on the blood and bones of indigenous inhabitants.

        • Amnesigenic@lemmy.ml
          142·
          10時間前

          Nobody had pocket video cameras during ww2 or sattelites that can take high definition photos of any patch of dirt on earth, with current tech it would be extremely easy to get a shitload of incontrovertible physical evidence from countless angles, and yet after years of accusations we have none

            • Amnesigenic@lemmy.ml
              123·
              9時間前

              Nothing in this even comes close to proving a genocide, they can’t even conclusively prove that the structures in question are detention facilites lol, try harder patriot

            • Coopr8@kbin.earth
              311·
              9時間前

              To clarify, do I think the Uigers are being massacred at population scale? I don’t know. Do I think they are having their culture forceably erradicated and medical population control forced on them, and intentional han population being moved into the region to make them into a population majority to take away any regional political or social influence the Uigers might have? Absolutely.

  • Asetru@feddit.org
    719·
    13時間前

    It’s times like these when I wish I could just block an instance that isn’t defederated from mine.

    • Maeve@kbin.earth
      16·
      10時間前

      I highly recommend you do that, rather than looking at anything that disagrees and asking "if my government lied to me about genocide in Palestine, the Gulf of Tonkin, and Vietnam war, what else may they be lying about, and why?”

      • Ibuthyr@feddit.org
        11·
        8分前

        Most people aren’t denying the genocide in Palestine and many other atrocities committed by the western nations. We’re just sick and tired of the people who deny the wrongdoings of China.