If you don’t see how people are unable to vote for a Democratic party that is shamelessly supporting genocide you have a problem.
Regardless of whether or not you are ok with actively voting for a staunch genocide supporter, you should be able to intellectually understand why people can’t approve the Democratic party’s unconditional genocide support.
My neck is one of the first on the chopping block. Yes.
It’s up to neoliberals to change their politics, if they don’t our democracy is fucked anyway. This is the one last chance to try and shock them into understanding how they’re failing.
Rewarding Biden with a second term will reinforce that Democratic support for genocide is ok as long as they employ a pied piper strategy and help prop up extreme right-wing.
So you know you can do an easy action to make some people’s lives better, to delay fascism, and save minorities from a plan to essentially wipe them out, but you won’t because of principles? Because of some notion that the Democratic party will learn from losing?
You know that they lost in 2020 to a fascist. This already happened and the result was 4 years of hell for every minority group in the country. Why do you think this would be any better, or accomplish anything?
No, I won’t because the party will not change direction without electoral consequences.
A vote for pro-genocide Democrats at this point is still a vote for inevitable fascism and increasingly worse civil strife.
A delay is only useful if the people you’re giving power to will use it to fight. Biden and corporate democrats have proven beyond any dispute that they will not fight. That’s how we got here, by relying on corporate democrats to stem the tide.
In a vacuum, what you’re saying makes sense. But the Democratic party doesn’t exist in a vacuum. You don’t have to approve of all of their actions or policies to recognize that the ONLY OTHER OPTION in this moment is a much greater evil.
Genocide is not excusable or justifiable. Ever. It’s not something that can be just handwaved away as “regretable”.
If the Dems want to win elections they need to A) stop supporting genocide and B) Stop trying to force the pied piper strategy. It’s a political failure.
I love the self outing of “pied piper”, bro you’re just admitting now that you’re treating everyone who’s actually gonna live the difference you let happen like a bunch of hysterical exaggerating crybabies because how dare people be mad at you for thinking this time surely the establishment will learn it’s lesson!
Yeah, we’re being crybabies because the Democratic nominee is supporting a genocide. If only we were all wise and worldly like you where we could shrugg it off, right? I mean, what’s the big deal about genocide, right? Everyone’s so stuck on this “human rights” thing, geez. Grow up everyone, you’ve gotta have a little genocide sometimes to protect democracy.
A better question; how does Biden represent any serious opposition to fascism when he’s literally neck and neck with a convicted felon and can’t even bring himself to give up on genocide in order to “save democracy”?
Not voting for your preferred candidate (even if it’s the lesser of two evils) is the same as voting for the other one. So I’m not sure how that eases your conscience.
Every voting age citizen is helping one of them win…either through voting directly or through inaction. If we allow a dictator to rise to power in America and commit God knows what atrocities, yes you can say “I didn’t vote for him.” But at that point, it doesn’t matter. It’s too late. You won’t be able to say “I helped prevent this. And even though I disagree strongly with certain policies, at least we still have a democracy.”
Doesn’t matter what your grievance with the party is. There are exactly two options in Nov. One of them WILL be voted into power. There is no 3rd option. No outcome where one of them does not win.
Whether you believe it or not, our actions as voters will help one or the other of them succeed. If it makes you feel good about yourself to abstain, that’s your choice. But it’s delusional to think that that somehow absolves you of any responsibility for whatever outcome happens. Like it or not, you’re going to help someone in this election…there is no way out of that.
Yes, and this isn’t just about November or a single term.
That’s why you keep spinning round and round in the same cycle of DNC abuse, they set themselves up so it’s either them or the End of All Things and you swallow that dichotomy whole every time.
Providing wrapons that you say can’t be used forbthe genocide even though we know they are being used for that?
Providing funding that could be used on weapons?
Providing intel intended to reduce civilian casualties?
Maintaining diplomatic relations with the country?
Just curious as ‘supporting’ can be stretched pretty far, and for me the floor would be providing weapons. Anything beyond that is just normal international relations bullshit.
If both parties are fully genocidal then neither of them represent resistance to it and voting for either is approval.
Reform is the only option. GOP has no chance of reform, Democrats have an infinitesimally narrow window left through which to achieve reform before fascism is fully rooted. They will not reform if rewarded with power.
Those are your democratic options. Do what you think will be least ineffective, and then prepare for the overwhelming statistical liklihood that Democrats will fumble any opportunity you give them out of greed and deluded incompetence.
Well, the good news is that only describes one of the parties that includes people who have said out loud that they support genocide and/or are writing messages supportive of killing Palestinians on the bombs used for genocide.
Go ahead and vote for the party that writes “finish them off” on bombs destined for Gaza, then? Or abstain, and get them elected, essentially the same?
And no, it’s not the same. If it was, then a maga supporter could claim that my uncommitted vote is actually a vote for Biden because I didn’t vote for Trump. Time to give up on this talking point, it’s nonsensical.
The math is literally there, not voting for the closer candidate to you is identical to voting for the other guy.
We have been using small words and slow speaking to explain FPTP to you disingenuous mother fuckers since Nader, just fucking stop acting like you’re doing anything except sea lioning because asking these questions in circles forever has better optics than admitting you care more about feeling valid about whatever white kid bullshit you’re on than you do about saving trans lives.
Tell me, when was the last time a progressive was in the white house? When have we had a progressive house leader? When was the last progressive majority?
Tell me again where the Democratic opposition to the Patriot Act was? How about FISA surveillance? Hmm, Iraq War? No. Citizens United! Surely you neolibs stood in the way of that, right?
Nope, you guys have been at the helm for decades, what’s your record actually show? Where are women’s bodily rights again? How about healthcare reform? At least your guys got to force people to pay for private insurance, right? We’re all so grateful to you for that.
So how’s that opposition to fascism actually going? We elected Biden like you demanded and got a genocide for it. But, maybe you’re right, maybe I’m just not intellectual enough to see how if move the party further and further to the right, to the point where you’re now doing apologetics for a genocide, we’ll eventually turn things around.
From their perspective not voting for Trump is a vote for Biden, which is why it would be great if they acknowlwedged how awful Trump is and kept their MAGA asses at home.
That is because not voting is like voting for your personal worst choice.
If you don’t see how people are unable to vote for a Democratic party that is shamelessly supporting genocide you have a problem.
Regardless of whether or not you are ok with actively voting for a staunch genocide supporter, you should be able to intellectually understand why people can’t approve the Democratic party’s unconditional genocide support.
And just to be clear, you understand the consequences of acting like a tantrum throwing child right?
The party of “wipe them all out!”, and move the embassy to Jerusalem and recognize that as the Israeli capital runs the country then.
My neck is one of the first on the chopping block. Yes.
It’s up to neoliberals to change their politics, if they don’t our democracy is fucked anyway. This is the one last chance to try and shock them into understanding how they’re failing.
Rewarding Biden with a second term will reinforce that Democratic support for genocide is ok as long as they employ a pied piper strategy and help prop up extreme right-wing.
So you know you can do an easy action to make some people’s lives better, to delay fascism, and save minorities from a plan to essentially wipe them out, but you won’t because of principles? Because of some notion that the Democratic party will learn from losing?
You know that they lost in 2020 to a fascist. This already happened and the result was 4 years of hell for every minority group in the country. Why do you think this would be any better, or accomplish anything?
No, I won’t because the party will not change direction without electoral consequences.
A vote for pro-genocide Democrats at this point is still a vote for inevitable fascism and increasingly worse civil strife.
A delay is only useful if the people you’re giving power to will use it to fight. Biden and corporate democrats have proven beyond any dispute that they will not fight. That’s how we got here, by relying on corporate democrats to stem the tide.
In a vacuum, what you’re saying makes sense. But the Democratic party doesn’t exist in a vacuum. You don’t have to approve of all of their actions or policies to recognize that the ONLY OTHER OPTION in this moment is a much greater evil.
Genocide is not excusable or justifiable. Ever. It’s not something that can be just handwaved away as “regretable”.
If the Dems want to win elections they need to A) stop supporting genocide and B) Stop trying to force the pied piper strategy. It’s a political failure.
I love the self outing of “pied piper”, bro you’re just admitting now that you’re treating everyone who’s actually gonna live the difference you let happen like a bunch of hysterical exaggerating crybabies because how dare people be mad at you for thinking this time surely the establishment will learn it’s lesson!
Yeah, we’re being crybabies because the Democratic nominee is supporting a genocide. If only we were all wise and worldly like you where we could shrugg it off, right? I mean, what’s the big deal about genocide, right? Everyone’s so stuck on this “human rights” thing, geez. Grow up everyone, you’ve gotta have a little genocide sometimes to protect democracy.
How are you going to help prevent genocide when you get genocided yourself for letting fascists win?
A better question; how does Biden represent any serious opposition to fascism when he’s literally neck and neck with a convicted felon and can’t even bring himself to give up on genocide in order to “save democracy”?
I’m not voting for Biden, or Trump. I am leaving pres blank.
Don’t care if you agree with me. I vote my conscious. You have to vote yours.
Of the two, which would you rather have?
Not voting for your preferred candidate (even if it’s the lesser of two evils) is the same as voting for the other one. So I’m not sure how that eases your conscience.
Every voting age citizen is helping one of them win…either through voting directly or through inaction. If we allow a dictator to rise to power in America and commit God knows what atrocities, yes you can say “I didn’t vote for him.” But at that point, it doesn’t matter. It’s too late. You won’t be able to say “I helped prevent this. And even though I disagree strongly with certain policies, at least we still have a democracy.”
Doesn’t matter what your grievance with the party is. There are exactly two options in Nov. One of them WILL be voted into power. There is no 3rd option. No outcome where one of them does not win.
Whether you believe it or not, our actions as voters will help one or the other of them succeed. If it makes you feel good about yourself to abstain, that’s your choice. But it’s delusional to think that that somehow absolves you of any responsibility for whatever outcome happens. Like it or not, you’re going to help someone in this election…there is no way out of that.
Yes, and this isn’t just about November or a single term.
That’s why you keep spinning round and round in the same cycle of DNC abuse, they set themselves up so it’s either them or the End of All Things and you swallow that dichotomy whole every time.
So I should just not vote is what you’re saying.
I still fail to see any suggestion from you that is a better alternative.
What is your floor for supporting genocide?
Providing wrapons that you say can’t be used forbthe genocide even though we know they are being used for that?
Providing funding that could be used on weapons?
Providing intel intended to reduce civilian casualties?
Maintaining diplomatic relations with the country?
Just curious as ‘supporting’ can be stretched pretty far, and for me the floor would be providing weapons. Anything beyond that is just normal international relations bullshit.
Support for genocide is not stretchy, no. Aiding a government that’s committing genocide is supporting genocide. Period.
Is not getting involved in stopping the genocide supporting genocide through inaction?
If both parties are fully genocidal then neither of them represent resistance to it and voting for either is approval.
Reform is the only option. GOP has no chance of reform, Democrats have an infinitesimally narrow window left through which to achieve reform before fascism is fully rooted. They will not reform if rewarded with power.
Those are your democratic options. Do what you think will be least ineffective, and then prepare for the overwhelming statistical liklihood that Democrats will fumble any opportunity you give them out of greed and deluded incompetence.
Well, the good news is that only describes one of the parties that includes people who have said out loud that they support genocide and/or are writing messages supportive of killing Palestinians on the bombs used for genocide.
No. Biden is fully committed to the genocide. His actions prove that beyond dispute.
Ok?
Go ahead and vote for the party that writes “finish them off” on bombs destined for Gaza, then? Or abstain, and get them elected, essentially the same?
I won’t be voting Republican. No.
And no, it’s not the same. If it was, then a maga supporter could claim that my uncommitted vote is actually a vote for Biden because I didn’t vote for Trump. Time to give up on this talking point, it’s nonsensical.
The math is literally there, not voting for the closer candidate to you is identical to voting for the other guy.
We have been using small words and slow speaking to explain FPTP to you disingenuous mother fuckers since Nader, just fucking stop acting like you’re doing anything except sea lioning because asking these questions in circles forever has better optics than admitting you care more about feeling valid about whatever white kid bullshit you’re on than you do about saving trans lives.
Tell me, when was the last time a progressive was in the white house? When have we had a progressive house leader? When was the last progressive majority?
Tell me again where the Democratic opposition to the Patriot Act was? How about FISA surveillance? Hmm, Iraq War? No. Citizens United! Surely you neolibs stood in the way of that, right?
Nope, you guys have been at the helm for decades, what’s your record actually show? Where are women’s bodily rights again? How about healthcare reform? At least your guys got to force people to pay for private insurance, right? We’re all so grateful to you for that.
So how’s that opposition to fascism actually going? We elected Biden like you demanded and got a genocide for it. But, maybe you’re right, maybe I’m just not intellectual enough to see how if move the party further and further to the right, to the point where you’re now doing apologetics for a genocide, we’ll eventually turn things around.
From their perspective not voting for Trump is a vote for Biden, which is why it would be great if they acknowlwedged how awful Trump is and kept their MAGA asses at home.
That is because not voting is like voting for your personal worst choice.