Kbin/Mbin (and possibly others?) definitely have the edge here since those platforms make votes public (only admins can see them on Lemmy). So, if you want to confirm what I’m saying here, go view some of these posts from Kbin/Mbin.
Every time one of the “usual suspects” says stuff like this in the comments, there will later be posts detailing how Biden is doing (or at least earnestly trying to do) exactly the things they’re saying he needs to be doing (oR ElSe i WiLl noT voTE anD NEithER ShoULD yoU!!!11!!). 100% of the time, those posts are downvoted by these same “usual suspect” accounts.
What gives? They have very strong opinions about how he should run his administration, so you’d think they’d appreciate him doing what they’ve been so helpfully suggesting. Unless…it was never about the issues at all.
That thin veneer of concern they’re hiding behind is not as thick as they think it is and is quite easy to see through. Now you know where to look.
Edit: Please don’t name and shame any specific users. That may violate the community or LW rules. We all know who most of the “usual suspects” are.
I have not been so sure in my vote in any prior election. 2020 I had no doubts, but then trump launched a coup and Biden turned out to actually have a few progressive bones in his body. Biden has straight up impressed me with his accomplishments with the inflation reduction act, chips act, infrastructure bill, and various other accomplishments.
Trump is scarier now than he was in the last 2 elections. He has a roadmap to dismantle our democracy and leave us rocking from crisis to crisis like Argentina or Brazil. I think there would still be elections, but the corruption would blow off the charts and millions will suffer needlessly.
Biden has straight up impressed me with his accomplishments with the inflation reduction act, chips act, infrastructure bill, and various other accomplishments.
Really?
It seemed to me that the general reaction to all of those was a bit… muted.
Prior to 1993, Canadian politics was dominated by two parties: The Liberals, and the Progressive Conservatives.
In the federal election of 1993, the government of the Progressive Conservatives (who had been in power for 9 years) was so unpopular that their vote collapsed and they won only 2 seats in parliament. The Progressive Conservatives were never again a political force in Canada.
In the same election, the votes for minor parties like the Bloc Quebecois and the Reform Alliance surged, with the Bloc Quebecois becoming the new official opposition party with 54 seats in parliament.
Is it wrong for me to hope something similar will happen in the US elections?
Yea. Sorry, the conditions are MASSIVELY different. In every conceivable way. Populations, demographics, broken government systems, corruption, info wars being waged by forgien interests, literal trillions of dollars at stake.
Canada is awesome… but it’s a Podunk backwater with barely the population of a single state and a much much much more homogeneous population (especially in the 90s)
Everyone (large governments) on the planet is fighting over control of America. If Trump wins, the global fascist agenda kicks off and the whole planet goes with it. This is a historical inflection point.
The PCs loosing just meant they created new parties and came back a few years later. They all stayed rich and white.
I’m not American so I’m not going to tell you who to vote for, but don’t pretend that Biden cares about Gaza, even if Trump is worse. You can draw the line wherever you want, compromise whatever you want, but stop lying to yourselves.
Honestly, neither do most of the people using “GeNoCiDe JoE”
I still chuckle every time I see that posted unironically, as if it’s a nickname that’s going to stick.
And it’s such an OBVIOUS Trumpism, I can’t believe the far left is stupid enough to think they came up with it.
If all we can expect is genocide, we have to consider other interests. I don’t think Biden wants dead Palestinians, he just isn’t willing to toss Israel out in the cold and that is better than cheerleading the bombs.
If all we can expect is genocide
Then we have failed. We shouldn’t accept “little a nazi, as a treat”.
I would say you exaggerate, and you should not vote and let the adults decide your government for you.
Me saying that we shouldn’t accept genocide is not exaggeration. What happened to “never again”? You being fine with genocide doesn’t make you an adult, in fact it’s quite the opposite since you submit to authority like a cowardly child.
Withholding your vote from Biden is peak virtue signalling. It does nothing for Palestinians, they are even more screwed with Trump than they are now. Trump already screwed them over moving the US embassy to Jerusalem and becoming the only nation to recognize Jerusalem as the Israeli Capital.
Protest, boycott, form a union or convince yours to strike, by all means, electoral politics is not the only or the most important political arena.
But complaining about Biden online to people that already don’t like him is worse than useless.
Nobody said anything about withholding your vote. I’m sick and tired of every criticism of genocide going back to “these are your two choices so suck it up”. We all know how this stupid election system works, all you’re doing is taking heat off people who support genocide.
100% this. They think they’re not being seen for what they are, but it’s all right there. Plain as day.
In my experience, any criticism of Biden is immediately met with “but Trump is worse!!!” Rather than any current argument as to why Biden isn’t actually that bad.
If the responses WERE generally any Biden I’d still dislike Biden but I wouldn’t bitch so much about him. Every once in a while you find someone making an effort to defend Biden in good faith and, great. We can disagree on the dude, that’s fine. But if I can’t criticize Biden without immediately being redirected to talking about Trump, I’m going to keep talking about Biden. If the best case scenario is we’re stick with this guy for another 4 years I would appreciate some pressure to do better.
There’s a shit storm of astroturfed anti Biden sentiment. You know this, everyone knows this. Knowing that, you should know that there aren’t enough hours in the day to eloquently frame and debate the benefits of Biden. To people who most likely aren’t even listening. At a base level, Trump WILL be worse on all issues. It’s a fact. And if Biden doesn’t win. Trump WILL. Also a fact.
It’s not a great argument. But it’s the only argument necessary. The fact that you act wounded or surprised by this seems very disingenuous. Why are others obliged to spend their time explaining public knowledge to you? Not to knock those that do just that. It is important after all. But where’s the entitlement coming from.
I keep hearing that but I rarely actually see it. Maybe one in fifty of the accounts accused of being a Russian troll actually looks like one if you check comment history. That’s said so much here it feels like a meme.
I think it’s fair to say a lot of people are disillusioned with Biden, and disillusioned with the process. Screaming about Trump is going to do absolutely nothing to bring them back.
They know. Everyone knows. What they don’t know, because no one fucking talks about it, is where Biden has been successful. Instead of an opportunity to shine a desperately needed light on his successes, you turn it in to another shit flinging contest.
First that’s not how astroturfing works. Everyone repeating it isn’t being paid to or a bot. Just useful tools. Second I never accused anyone of being Bots Etc. This all comes off as deflection and ignoring what was actually said. Regardless. This deflection illustrates your awareness of it. Despite you’re unwillingness to acknowledge it.
I’ve never been allusioned with Biden. There was only one Democrat I liked less than him in the 2019 primaries. It was quite a surprise that he far exceeded my low expectations. But he did. Still we are talking fascists, literal fascist. Who’ve already attempted to overthrow the government once. With a literal fucking plan on how to end democracy when they regain power. How are we so focused on the runner-up in a shitty person contest? There is a reason. And no, you will not acknowledge it.
There are plenty of reasons why Biden isn’t that bad. And I’ve seen enough people list them that I don’t feel I should waste the time. The information is very easy to obtain…
And Trump IS worse. News flash… BOTH things can be true.
Now in MY experience, most… and I said MOST criticism about Biden is about one single thing.
gEnoCiDe.
And it’s mostly from people that have no history of showing any support for Palestine prior to several months ago. Also, it’s from people that have no viable solutions to the question of who we should vote for if not Biden.
Because not voting doesn’t cancel an election.
And you’re absolutely right. He 100% should do better. And he should be held accountable for the things he could have done better- in whatever way is fair and just- But when you’re in the middle of a hurricane, you don’t bitch at FEMA for not sending people to drain your flooded basement. You endure what you have to to get through it.
We need to get through this.
Now…
To the actual far lefters, I’d say:
We are risking losing our entire democracy. This isn’t something to hold hostage in a negotiation over foreign affairs. I’d suggest you take this shit seriously- the genocide will be MUCH worse due to willful inaction. And you won’t have anyone to blame but yourselves.
To the “far lefters” that are actually MAGA bots here to disrupt our election:
You’re not fooling anyone.
I love that you’re gatekeeping caring about genocide. This just goes to show how amazing of a job biden is doing that you can rationalize defending genocide with “actually the people who are anti-genocide are the real bad guys because they don’t actually care, according to me”.
I love how you’re ignoring how all the genocide is going to happen despite your decision to not vote in “protest.”
It shows how little you actually care about it.
I did vote not committed during the primary as the only opportunity to send a message, but I am voting for the democratic party down the ballot during the general like I do every single time.
Did I pass your purity test and acceptably show my distaste for biden’s support for genocide or are you going to continue to tell me how I don’t care about genocide while you unconditionally defend it?
If voting not committed during the primary is not acceptable, protests are not acceptable, and the most mild of criticisms online aren’t acceptable, then what do you consider acceptable? Only full-throated support for genocide like your god king biden who can do no wrong?
Do what you want. The fact remains that not voting will hurt America. Period. And if you’re here to defend the act of not voting- then I’m going to call it out.
And I have no “purity test.” Biden sucks. But so does unrestrained fascism.
Also, even if he’s not, are you really stupid enough that he’ll be exactly as harmful to those causes as Donald “My Draft Platform is Literally ‘Droppin’ the Pretense we Doin’ Fascism Now!'” Trump?
There are only two ways you could genuinely believe that, conspicuous use of the lense of privilege, and just being the most politically unaware moron this side of a YouTube comment section.
There’s two ways to end up with an authoritarian regime. And they both stem from a lack of accountability. One is the state being unable to hold people accountable and the other is the people not holding politicians accountable.
If you are blindly supportive of war crimes then the opposition will be no better. Democrats aren’t an altruistic organization. Their goal is to control the government. They just support doing it legally for now.
Thing is you accuse supporters of being blindly supportive of anything. That’s where you’re wrong, both about the blindness and the support.
It doesn’t matter how much noise you make if you reliably pull the lever for them. That action is the blind support. And that support was justified before Democrats decided genocide was okay. If genocide isn’t a deal breaker then we’re already over the cliff and in free fall.
Democrats decided genocide was okay
Okay, now you’re just making things up.
Gaza is right there and Biden just released the bombs he’s been holding back from Israel. A withholding that is proof on its own that Israel was committing war crimes with them. His own announcement on the matter said it was because large bombs cause too many civilian casualties in urban areas. Which is a specific war crime being referred to as obliquely as possible.
Then you have the Israeli government outright saying they want to clear the Palestinians out and sell the land. Which is ethnic cleansing.
And the man made famine.
How much more evidence do you need?
None of that has anything to do with what I said.
Just because Biden did/said something that doesn’t mean all Democrats feel the same way. You said Democrats decided that genocide was okay and I know that you know that is not true. You’re either being hyperbolic or are intentionally lying.
I’m a Democrat and I definitely did not decide that genocide is okay, and I know a lot of other Democrats that feel the same way.
Are you voting for the guy who knows he’s giving weapons to a genocidal regime?
Are you supporting the party that’s arresting and charging peaceful protestors?
As I told someone else, this is a group project. You get the same grade as the rest of us.
the opposition will be no better
You people are still trying the “both sides” thing? It’s getting old.
Any criticism of democrats is magically dispelled by calling “both sides” huh? This may be shocking to you, but democrats and republicans i.e. “both sides” are actually the same on a number of issues, including many major ones like undying support for the genocidal ethnostate known as israel. You can’t just dismiss this with the magical “both sides” accusation. You’re mistaking “both sides are exactly the same in all ways” with “both sides are bad in certain ways”.
Bullshit. The vote blue no matter who down vote brigade is a menace. If any of y’all catch a whiff of criticism, you start screaming “bot” and slamming down votes. Shut down any opportunities for education or discourse, and now that ya boi made a goddamn fool out of all of us last night you’re still on your bullshit.
To be clear, I’m a left progressive and I would pull out my own fingernails if I thought it gave a chance to prevent Trump. I’ll hold my nose or whatever. But the worst of you are as toxic as any moderate republican. I’m so tired of being lectured by people who don’t do any kind of political organizing outside of voting, and it shows. Don’t act like you care if you only check in for 6 months out of 4 years. Your apathy is the reason why the only real opposition to fash in this country are completely incompetent nincompoops
