Zero evidence of forced labor or forced relocation, just people they claim are Uighurs working outside the Xinjiang region, the rest is just unverifiable stories as usual
If China were less opaque and oppressive about how they went about things. Perhaps there would be reason to believe them. I know specific people who have been ditectly impacted by this. Your indoctrination doesn’t change that fact. It’s bad when anyone does it. Not just china. But it’s still bad when China does it.
Everything you disagree with is a bot and/or foreign agent, everyone who says you’re wrong has an ulterior motive, everyone is evil or stupid except the US. Stay stupid patriot!
Again I know people directly impacted by this. And don’t appreciate your non sequiturs. Yes I’m sure anyone could go there and see what the government wants them to see. However it is undisputed, and well-known. That China opresses anyone they disagree with. Much like the Us government is doing. They both regularly disappear, jail, and harass advocates for democracy, or those who go against the unanswerable leadership.
And that’s exactly why No One Believes you. Or respects you. There are Chinese people calling this out plenty. It’s not some Western psyop. Or anything remotely like privileged, Western, campists, vanguard cosplayers pretend it is.
I’d have a tiny modicum of respect for leninists if they could ever admit fault. But instead, every time, somehow it’s always the west that shit their pants while they were wearing them. What a joke.
“No one believes you” except for every muslim nation on earth lol. Go ahead, tell me about how they’re all corrupt/compromised and only the noble westerners really care about the plight of the Uighur, I could use a good laugh.
Why would Islamic countries not condemn China? They certainly seem to condemn the genocide of the Palestinian people. Somebody please enlighten me.
Edit: According to Business Insider, they might fear China’s retaliation (e.g. economic vengeance). How reliant are these Islamic countries on exports from China and how reliant are these countries on China importing their resources (e.g. oil)?
Why would any of that matter when people of their religion are being genocided? Fear of retaliation from a nuclear-powered state and facing consequences in regards to western trade doesn’t seem to deter them from taking a stance on Palestine.
The only explanation any of these people ever offer for that glaring discrepancy is to accuse every muslim nation on earth of being corrupt/compromised by China in some way. They never have any evidence to support this accusation, but that doesn’t stop them from saying it anyway. You’d think if it was that easy to get them all to go along with a genocide against their own people then the US could just pay them all to stop being mad at Israel, and yet
There is plenty of evidence widely available from organizations like human rights watch and amnesty international. Claims that deny any evidence exist of the persecution of China’s Muslim population rely on logical fallacies to attempt to obscure the validity of the body of evidence. Namely ad hominem attacks against the individual who first gathered the evidence to begin with.
While the researcher obviously has biased opinions about the CCP, that doesn’t affect the validity of the evidence gathered, most of which comes directly from publicly available information released by the CCP itself, or from leaked internal communication from party members that have been widely verified by reputable journalists and organizations specializing in human rights violations.
While I personally wouldn’t claim that there is a genocide as we traditionally understand it has occurred, it’s hard to deny that the Uyghur people aren’t being systemically oppressed or that significant human rights violations haven’t occurred.
Simply looking at publicly available census data releases by the CCP we can tell that Uyghur people are being driven from culturally important sites that are being replaced by ethnically Han Chinese, and that Uyghur populations have been shrinking at a worryingly abnormal rate.
If we look at recent history of ethnic conflict within China in tibet, Manchuria, and inner Mongolia, I fail to see why it’s logical to assume that the accusations of crimes against humanity is pure propaganda.
Han chauvinism is well documented, and even Mao Zedong spoke about how it would negatively affect the future of the party. Ethnic conflict/cleansing has been a constant in the region and is part of the foundational history of modern China.
There is not “plenty of evidence”, there are plenty of wild claims and unverifiable stories, about a country& region that is currently completely open to foreign tourism no less. You admit you don’t believe there’s a genocide occuring, yet still choose to believe the people/organizations making these claims despite the fact that all of them claim that a genocide is occuring. Han chauvinism existing does absolutely nothing to prove the specific accusations being presented. When a government chooses to target a minority population it invariably results in physical evidence, see Palestine for examples. The complete absence of any comparable evidence for this, coupled with the obvious motive for the US and their allies to disparage their greatest global competitor, and the documented history of false accusations used to justify our foreign policy, should be more than enough reason for any reasonable person to disregard these stories until such evidence is presented.
There is not “plenty of evidence”, there are plenty of wild claims and unverifiable stories,
“Xinjiang is a vast region with an area of 1.66 million km2. Until the 1950s, Uyghurs were the majority ethnic group in the region, accounting for more than 90 percent of the total population.”
“Between the 1940s and the 1980s, attempts to incorporate the region into the modern Chinese national state brought about a 2,500 per cent increase in the Han population. Today, Han and Uyghurs each account for approximately 40 per cent of Xinjiang’s total population of roughly 25.5 million. Clearly, the basic trajectory over the past decades has been one of moving Han rapidly into the region. This is coupled in more recent years with a significant shrinking of the Uyghur population.”
“The Han population in the region increased at an average rate of 8.1 per cent yearly, from 5 per cent in 1947 to around 40 per cent in 2000. Officially, Uyghurs comprise about 45 percent of Xinjiang’s permanent population with Han representing approximately 42 percent, and Kazakh, Hui and other ethnicities making up the rest. However, these figures belie the very high number of long-term resident and temporary Han migrant workers as well as thousands of security personnel in Xinjiang. They also obscure data from the 2020 Chinese Statistical Yearbook, showing that between 2017 and 2019 the birth rate in Xinjiang dropped approximately 48.7 per cent, from 15.88 per thousand in 2017 to 8.14 per thousand in 2019. The average for all of China was 10.48 per thousand.”
“The capital of the province itself went from being a city in which there were hardly any Han Chinese before 1949 to one in which the Uyghurs have been almost completely displaced. In addition, across Xinjiang, urban redesign projects have demolished hundreds of thousands of homes and resettled millions of Uyghur residents on the pretext of ‘civilization’ (文明) and ‘beautification’ (美化).”
“Since the mid-1990s, the gradual exclusion of Uyghurs from state-based employment – and the rising number of private jobs – is statistically verifiable from a variety of sources. While Han Chinese were able to secure employment, Uyghurs were kept out of construction jobs, road-building projects and oil and gas pipelines. Uyghurs with graduate degrees were only employed at an estimated 15 per cent, and, according to a 2013 study, Uyghurs earned an average of 59 per cent of what their Han counterparts earned.”
about a country& region that is currently completely open to foreign tourism no less.
"While Xinjiang is generally open to international tourism, there are specific travel restrictions and measures in place, particularly for certain groups and areas. Generally, foreigners do not need a special permit to enter Xinjiang, but they do need a valid Chinese visa. However, there are restrictions on travel in specific areas, and increased security measures are common, especially in major cities. "
You admit you don’t believe there’s a genocide occuring, yet still choose to believe the people/organizations making these claims despite the fact that all of them claim that a genocide is occuring.
You can still massively suppress a minority group without committing what is commonly thought to be a genocide.
Just because I don’t completely agree with the conclusions made from a body of evidence doesn’t mean the evidence is invalid.
Han chauvinism existing does absolutely nothing to prove the specific accusations being presented. When a government chooses to target a minority population it invariably results in physical evidence, see Palestine for examples.
What accusations of mine are you denying?
As I said there is plenty of evidence to confirm that a minority group is being put into concentration camps for "reeducation " and that they are being forced to move away from their traditional homeland. This isn’t even being denied by the Chinese government, they just validate it as a way to control what they lable as terrorism.
The evidence I provided is sourced by an organization that also documents the crimes currently occuring in Gaza.
should be more than enough reason for any reasonable person to disregard these stories until such evidence is presented.
As I said, there’s plenty of evidence that’s been cross referenced and verified by dozens of advocacy groups who often stand against America’s foreign policy. Most of the evidence comes from internal documents created by the Chinese government itself.
I don’t have any specific prejudice against the Chinese government, it like any government does things that I agree with and disagree with. You on the other hand don’t seem to be able to get over your own biases.
None of what you’ve copypasted here would prove anything close to genocide or even systematic oppression even if any of it were true, and your “source” presents absolutely no evidence to support their claims, it’s literally just paragraph after paragraph of “trust me bro”. None of the claims regarding systematic exclusion are in any way verifiable. Your only source is also verifiably funded by the US and our allies, who have a long and equally verifiable history of making shit up about other countries to justify our foreign policy. You’re a fucking joke.
You keep shooting blanks with your empty words, whats this reply supposed to be? Troll? It just show how you are not trying to discuss in good faith and just being a yes sir so I guess your phrase of “try harder patriot” seems equivalent to be you thinking outloud to yourself
A combination of deliberately inaccurate translations and outright lies, fucking duh. The vast majority of americans are barely literate in english and completely incapable of fact-checking this nonsense. When a government targets a minority population it invariably leaves far better evidence than paperwork nobody can verify the source of, like videos and actual physical evidence, see Palestine for examples.
Asks for evidence, gets evidence, send a soap of words as a way to sway argument against then point to other countries again, well done on gaslighting, .ml tankie
Asks for evidence, gets evidence, send a soap of words as a way to sway argument against then point to other countries again, well done on gaslighting, .ml tankie
There’s evidence and then there’s western imperial “evidence”
Because friend I knew it was pointless the minute I saw you drop “tankie” unironically. The fake left is just as present here as fake-left-reddit i reckon
The wiki article linked in the comment uses the exact same “evidence” as the OP article, which is to say absolutely none, and if you bothered putting even a little effort into questioning US propaganda you’d know that. No WMDs in Iraq, no genocide in China, same old braindead patriots mad at anyone who points it out.
Loves dismissing evidences after getting evidence you said to be nonexistent to gaslight with nothing but empty soap of words, nice try on gaslighting .ml tankie
You keep shooting blanks with your empty words, whats this reply supposed to be? Troll? It just show how you are not trying to discuss in good faith and just being a yes sir so I guess your phrase of “try harder patriot” seems equivalent to be you thinking outloud to yourself
Is anyone else seeing two bots arguing here? The exact same replies have been used by both parties multiple times in this same thread and in a different post on another instance.
It’s super suspect that western media suddenly cares about the rights of muslims in China, especially after they’ve spent there lay 20 years vilifying muslims in every other country in the world.
It’s also not outside of the realm of possibility that China is dealing with religious extremism internally and sent interested in getting non Chinese opinions about the best way to do it.
Nothing in the source article even comes close to the current genocide narrative, although I am surprised we were pretending to give a shit about uighurs that long ago. Seems like the state department figured out that this wouldn’t be enough to make anyone pay attention, and their subsequent success with making shit up about Iraq and Afghanistan was so successful they just did the same thing again, and braindead patriots like you ate it up.
They mass imprisonment and cultural destruction is a more recent phenomenon. China first spent several decades bringing in colonists and executing those who complained too loudly.
Zero evidence of forced labor or forced relocation, just people they claim are Uighurs working outside the Xinjiang region, the rest is just unverifiable stories as usual
If China were less opaque and oppressive about how they went about things. Perhaps there would be reason to believe them. I know specific people who have been ditectly impacted by this. Your indoctrination doesn’t change that fact. It’s bad when anyone does it. Not just china. But it’s still bad when China does it.
It’s a CCP bot account. Just report it and block it.
Everything you disagree with is a bot and/or foreign agent, everyone who says you’re wrong has an ulterior motive, everyone is evil or stupid except the US. Stay stupid patriot!
Xinjiang is literally completely open to foreign tourism, you could go there right now and see for yourself if you cared to
No it’s not, large parts of xinjiang require permits to visit, or are still completely blocked to outsiders.
Also, there is plenty of evidence to verify that systemic abuse of minority rights has and still is occurring in China. You deny any of it is valid.
Anything’s possible when you make shit up
This is not a counter-argument, it’s a thought terminating cliche.
Where’s your evidence then?
Again I know people directly impacted by this. And don’t appreciate your non sequiturs. Yes I’m sure anyone could go there and see what the government wants them to see. However it is undisputed, and well-known. That China opresses anyone they disagree with. Much like the Us government is doing. They both regularly disappear, jail, and harass advocates for democracy, or those who go against the unanswerable leadership.
Anything’s possible when you make shit up
And that’s exactly why No One Believes you. Or respects you. There are Chinese people calling this out plenty. It’s not some Western psyop. Or anything remotely like privileged, Western, campists, vanguard cosplayers pretend it is.
I’d have a tiny modicum of respect for leninists if they could ever admit fault. But instead, every time, somehow it’s always the west that shit their pants while they were wearing them. What a joke.
“No one believes you” except for every muslim nation on earth lol. Go ahead, tell me about how they’re all corrupt/compromised and only the noble westerners really care about the plight of the Uighur, I could use a good laugh.
Why would Islamic countries not condemn China? They certainly seem to condemn the genocide of the Palestinian people. Somebody please enlighten me.
Edit: According to Business Insider, they might fear China’s retaliation (e.g. economic vengeance). How reliant are these Islamic countries on exports from China and how reliant are these countries on China importing their resources (e.g. oil)?
Why would any of that matter when people of their religion are being genocided? Fear of retaliation from a nuclear-powered state and facing consequences in regards to western trade doesn’t seem to deter them from taking a stance on Palestine.
The only explanation any of these people ever offer for that glaring discrepancy is to accuse every muslim nation on earth of being corrupt/compromised by China in some way. They never have any evidence to support this accusation, but that doesn’t stop them from saying it anyway. You’d think if it was that easy to get them all to go along with a genocide against their own people then the US could just pay them all to stop being mad at Israel, and yet
There is plenty of evidence widely available from organizations like human rights watch and amnesty international. Claims that deny any evidence exist of the persecution of China’s Muslim population rely on logical fallacies to attempt to obscure the validity of the body of evidence. Namely ad hominem attacks against the individual who first gathered the evidence to begin with.
While the researcher obviously has biased opinions about the CCP, that doesn’t affect the validity of the evidence gathered, most of which comes directly from publicly available information released by the CCP itself, or from leaked internal communication from party members that have been widely verified by reputable journalists and organizations specializing in human rights violations.
While I personally wouldn’t claim that there is a genocide as we traditionally understand it has occurred, it’s hard to deny that the Uyghur people aren’t being systemically oppressed or that significant human rights violations haven’t occurred.
Simply looking at publicly available census data releases by the CCP we can tell that Uyghur people are being driven from culturally important sites that are being replaced by ethnically Han Chinese, and that Uyghur populations have been shrinking at a worryingly abnormal rate.
If we look at recent history of ethnic conflict within China in tibet, Manchuria, and inner Mongolia, I fail to see why it’s logical to assume that the accusations of crimes against humanity is pure propaganda.
Han chauvinism is well documented, and even Mao Zedong spoke about how it would negatively affect the future of the party. Ethnic conflict/cleansing has been a constant in the region and is part of the foundational history of modern China.
There is not “plenty of evidence”, there are plenty of wild claims and unverifiable stories, about a country& region that is currently completely open to foreign tourism no less. You admit you don’t believe there’s a genocide occuring, yet still choose to believe the people/organizations making these claims despite the fact that all of them claim that a genocide is occuring. Han chauvinism existing does absolutely nothing to prove the specific accusations being presented. When a government chooses to target a minority population it invariably results in physical evidence, see Palestine for examples. The complete absence of any comparable evidence for this, coupled with the obvious motive for the US and their allies to disparage their greatest global competitor, and the documented history of false accusations used to justify our foreign policy, should be more than enough reason for any reasonable person to disregard these stories until such evidence is presented.
“Xinjiang is a vast region with an area of 1.66 million km2. Until the 1950s, Uyghurs were the majority ethnic group in the region, accounting for more than 90 percent of the total population.”
“Between the 1940s and the 1980s, attempts to incorporate the region into the modern Chinese national state brought about a 2,500 per cent increase in the Han population. Today, Han and Uyghurs each account for approximately 40 per cent of Xinjiang’s total population of roughly 25.5 million. Clearly, the basic trajectory over the past decades has been one of moving Han rapidly into the region. This is coupled in more recent years with a significant shrinking of the Uyghur population.”
“The Han population in the region increased at an average rate of 8.1 per cent yearly, from 5 per cent in 1947 to around 40 per cent in 2000. Officially, Uyghurs comprise about 45 percent of Xinjiang’s permanent population with Han representing approximately 42 percent, and Kazakh, Hui and other ethnicities making up the rest. However, these figures belie the very high number of long-term resident and temporary Han migrant workers as well as thousands of security personnel in Xinjiang. They also obscure data from the 2020 Chinese Statistical Yearbook, showing that between 2017 and 2019 the birth rate in Xinjiang dropped approximately 48.7 per cent, from 15.88 per thousand in 2017 to 8.14 per thousand in 2019. The average for all of China was 10.48 per thousand.”
“The capital of the province itself went from being a city in which there were hardly any Han Chinese before 1949 to one in which the Uyghurs have been almost completely displaced. In addition, across Xinjiang, urban redesign projects have demolished hundreds of thousands of homes and resettled millions of Uyghur residents on the pretext of ‘civilization’ (文明) and ‘beautification’ (美化).”
“Since the mid-1990s, the gradual exclusion of Uyghurs from state-based employment – and the rising number of private jobs – is statistically verifiable from a variety of sources. While Han Chinese were able to secure employment, Uyghurs were kept out of construction jobs, road-building projects and oil and gas pipelines. Uyghurs with graduate degrees were only employed at an estimated 15 per cent, and, according to a 2013 study, Uyghurs earned an average of 59 per cent of what their Han counterparts earned.”
Source from Minority Rights Group
"While Xinjiang is generally open to international tourism, there are specific travel restrictions and measures in place, particularly for certain groups and areas. Generally, foreigners do not need a special permit to enter Xinjiang, but they do need a valid Chinese visa. However, there are restrictions on travel in specific areas, and increased security measures are common, especially in major cities. "
You can still massively suppress a minority group without committing what is commonly thought to be a genocide.
Just because I don’t completely agree with the conclusions made from a body of evidence doesn’t mean the evidence is invalid.
What accusations of mine are you denying?
As I said there is plenty of evidence to confirm that a minority group is being put into concentration camps for "reeducation " and that they are being forced to move away from their traditional homeland. This isn’t even being denied by the Chinese government, they just validate it as a way to control what they lable as terrorism.
The evidence I provided is sourced by an organization that also documents the crimes currently occuring in Gaza.
As I said, there’s plenty of evidence that’s been cross referenced and verified by dozens of advocacy groups who often stand against America’s foreign policy. Most of the evidence comes from internal documents created by the Chinese government itself.
I don’t have any specific prejudice against the Chinese government, it like any government does things that I agree with and disagree with. You on the other hand don’t seem to be able to get over your own biases.
None of what you’ve copypasted here would prove anything close to genocide or even systematic oppression even if any of it were true, and your “source” presents absolutely no evidence to support their claims, it’s literally just paragraph after paragraph of “trust me bro”. None of the claims regarding systematic exclusion are in any way verifiable. Your only source is also verifiably funded by the US and our allies, who have a long and equally verifiable history of making shit up about other countries to justify our foreign policy. You’re a fucking joke.
After they hide their homeless people so outsiders will think they’re the perfect country
Lol seen this one already, linked video provides zero actual evidence as usual
Again dismissing evidence with empty soap of words, nice gaslighting .ml tankie
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You keep shooting blanks with your empty words, whats this reply supposed to be? Troll? It just show how you are not trying to discuss in good faith and just being a yes sir so I guess your phrase of “try harder patriot” seems equivalent to be you thinking outloud to yourself
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lol 🤡
Conveniently forgetting about the Xinjiang Papers, huh? Found an ableist
A combination of deliberately inaccurate translations and outright lies, fucking duh. The vast majority of americans are barely literate in english and completely incapable of fact-checking this nonsense. When a government targets a minority population it invariably leaves far better evidence than paperwork nobody can verify the source of, like videos and actual physical evidence, see Palestine for examples.
Asks for evidence, gets evidence, send a soap of words as a way to sway argument against then point to other countries again, well done on gaslighting, .ml tankie
There’s evidence and then there’s western imperial “evidence”
Whataboutism again? You can do better, at least I had thought you could at the beginning of the thread but it’s clear as day you’re just trolling
Because friend I knew it was pointless the minute I saw you drop “tankie” unironically. The fake left is just as present here as fake-left-reddit i reckon
The wiki article linked in the comment uses the exact same “evidence” as the OP article, which is to say absolutely none, and if you bothered putting even a little effort into questioning US propaganda you’d know that. No WMDs in Iraq, no genocide in China, same old braindead patriots mad at anyone who points it out.
Loves dismissing evidences after getting evidence you said to be nonexistent to gaslight with nothing but empty soap of words, nice try on gaslighting .ml tankie
No WMDs in Iraq, no genocide in China. Try harder patriot!
You keep shooting blanks with your empty words, whats this reply supposed to be? Troll? It just show how you are not trying to discuss in good faith and just being a yes sir so I guess your phrase of “try harder patriot” seems equivalent to be you thinking outloud to yourself
Is anyone else seeing two bots arguing here? The exact same replies have been used by both parties multiple times in this same thread and in a different post on another instance.
You’ve got nothing and you know it, you’re either a sincerely incurable moron or a profoundly incompetent langley propaganda poster
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I thought world being a psyop was just an inside joke but i suppose its true just openly posting western propaganda like this UGH
Its not so much a psyop as a majority of americans actually believe this shit. World is a huge circle jerk so thats why it happens.
It’s no better than fucking reddit, shameful
It’s super suspect that western media suddenly cares about the rights of muslims in China, especially after they’ve spent there lay 20 years vilifying muslims in every other country in the world.
It’s also not outside of the realm of possibility that China is dealing with religious extremism internally and sent interested in getting non Chinese opinions about the best way to do it.
The New York Times has been covering Uyghur issues since 2001.
Anything’s possible when you make shit up
Meanwhile, in the real world
Nothing in the source article even comes close to the current genocide narrative, although I am surprised we were pretending to give a shit about uighurs that long ago. Seems like the state department figured out that this wouldn’t be enough to make anyone pay attention, and their subsequent success with making shit up about Iraq and Afghanistan was so successful they just did the same thing again, and braindead patriots like you ate it up.
They mass imprisonment and cultural destruction is a more recent phenomenon. China first spent several decades bringing in colonists and executing those who complained too loudly.
It’s a more recent lie, because the milder previous lies weren’t having the desired effect
Why do you tankies love genocide so much? It’s a weird position to shill for so hard.