It does? Any moderately large and well organised public gathering in Britain would have at least one set of paramedics on standby. Is that so terrible?
idk, is it terrible to put people in danger for the vain narcissism of an anachronistic figure of government? I suppose the answer depends on how much of a bootlicker you are.
Intentionally putting a large number of people in a position that they are likely to pass out from heat exhaustion isn’t normally considered a good thing…
Especially, when it’s because it “looks cool”. And your response to this knowledge, isn’t to change putting them in that situation, but dedicate people to picking them up and getting them out of sight.
You’re still defending a public display for a monarch who doesn’t have to do any real work even once in their life and gets everything handed to them on a silver platter
Better than having to fund the lifestyles of rapists like prince Andrew. I’m not American so I don’t have to worry about having a rapist being our president, either…
I don’t see any of the other “soldiers” moving in to help here. Or are you talking about the random person that runs in? And if so, how does that prove in any way that the soldiers themselves aren’t trained to ignore fallen comrades? These pictures just make it look worse cuz his buddies literally just have to stand there and wait for someone else to rush in
Those aren’t “random people”. They’re literally in military uniform. What are the ones next to him supposed to do about it? Make a big fuss and cancel the parade over a common occurrence? In fact, this happens quite commonly across the world.
When I sung in a choir in primary school. we were literally told if someone faints in front of us during a performance, to ignore it and keep singing. We thought it was an over-exaggeration. Until the Christmas concert when someone literally fainted in front of us during it and we kept singing. Of course, the teachers then came and rushed to their aid and carefully brought them away. So during organised performances like this- it’s quite standard not to freak out if somebody faints.
Maybe don’t put a group of human beings in a situation where they’re constantly passing out then? Especially if they’re children, it’s wild that that’s the comparison you use. The issue here isn’t JUST that they’re expected to do nothing when comrades are in trouble (yes, even with trained help there), but it’s ALSO that people like you excuse it because it’s “the norm.” Like sure, yippee, they have trained help for when they pass out, but apparently they’re EXPECTED to pass out? Ok
By that logic we should close all roads because we EXPECT automobile crashes to happen, we should cease all construction and industry because we EXPECT accidents to happen, we should ban all sports because we EXPECT injuries to happen, etc.
I’m chiming in as someone who actually fainted during a choir practice. Our teacher cautioned us at least five different times not to lock our legs for that exact reason, but in the moment I wasn’t thinking, and I locked my legs. It happened only one time, and I was the only kid who fainted in the entire four years I sang in that choir. But oh, how inhumane of our school for hosting a choir recital (gasp!). It sure was evil of them to put us in a situation with a normal level of risk while trained first aid personnel were present.
I think maybe you’re just severely overestimating how much it happens. The other person used the word “commonly,” but you used the word “constantly,” and that is not the same thing at all. We have to prepare for the most common mishaps because there are inherent risks in everything we do. But I assure you, if people were constantly passing out in parades and choir recitals, we would stop having them.
Locking your knees causes more blood to pool in the lower extremities so less of it reaches the brain. It normally takes at least several continuous minutes of standing with your knees locked like this to faint. It sometimes happens when singing in a choir, or standing in formation, because
a) you have to stand in the same position for extended periods of time,
b) your body is consuming oxygen faster because of singing, a warm uniform, and/or hot weather, and
c) you may be so focused on your task that you disregard your discomfort and don’t even realize you’re locking your knees or feeling faint.
When I fainted in choir rehearsal, I think I was only unconscious for a couple seconds. I fell forward on my hands and knees and came to my senses at the choir director’s feet. I felt really flushed and clammy at the same time, almost feverish, and it took a few more seconds after I regained consciousness for my vision to clear. Basically as soon as I was horizontal and normal blood flow resumed, I started to recover immediately. But if heat stroke or other factors are involved, that might not be the case. I don’t envy that soldier being carried on a stretcher in that picture; I don’t know what kind of environmental factors or underlying conditions may have been involved.
What use is for “soldiers” (they seem more like exhibition pieces…) standing around for someone who just happened to be born in the right family, and now has all the wealth they could ever need and a thousand times more?
A road facilitates transport, what good is wasting money for a monarch?
Monarchy defenders perplex me, how can your tongue be so deep in someone’s boot
Oh, I’m not defending the monarchy at all. They can absolutely go to hell. There is a big leap between “the monarchy is fundamentally evil” and “standard military parade practices around the world are unsafe,” and then to “we shouldn’t let children perform in choirs because they’re constantly fainting.” I latched on to that latter piece because it’s so ridiculous.
These military proceedings for monarchies are completely unnecessary, and can VERY EASILY be done in a way that doesn’t put people in danger. It’s not about that though, it’s about a show of force, showing your army that you own that you can command to do whatever you want, including standing to the point of fainting, and that’s supposed to be something to be proud of?
That situation is COMPLETELY DIFFERENT from any of the NECESSARY examples you listed. Examples that already have safety precautions in place that are reviewed and updated regularly based on current situations
I don’t know the details of the military demonstrations, but singing in a choir as a kid in front of hundreds of parents is exactly the kind of scary thing with no actual danger that can really help kids grow and conquer fears.
They’re not expected to. But it happens. If you have concerts, people usually pass out. That’s why you have trained medical staff on standby, no matter the event. It’s just that the military has an organised way of doing it… Because it’s the military.
Are these people ACTUALLY their military though, or just for show? I always thought they were just for show but I don’t actually know. Not that it makes a huge difference, just curious
So ignore the bigger problem because the already provided temporary solution might keep your friend from suffering permanent damage, after being put into a situation known to lead to this outcome.
I don’t see any of the other “soldiers” moving in to help here
It’s crazy how hard people miss the memo on this.
You are in parade formation. One of your coworkers collapses from strain. You do not help because your boss hazed you into subservience. This is fine because idk maybe someone else will be by to handle things eventually.
Fucking corporatist mindset on steroids. People are denuded of their empathy in their quest to perfectly follow orders.
I wonder how any one of these freaks behave in a torture blacksite when their bosses line up another round of “enemy combatants” for waterboarding…
Thank you, finally someone else with some empathy not excusing every stupid unnecessary thing monarchs force on their subjects. Even ones in the military.
We actually don’t know what happened, locking your knees can cause this as well. I’m not disagreeing with you, it is absolutely an unnecessary display with some archaic traditions. But calling the other soldiers “freaks” for letting the trained and available medical professionals handle the situation was unfair.
I don’t see why he would have? Fainting is a natural human biological function. And if you think that someone - who put their life on the line for our country - succumbing to that is an “embarrassment”, then you are an embarrassment.
He most likely locked his knees standing at attention too long. It’s not an uncommon occurrence in training. I saw one guy do it during a locker inspection and whack his head hard on a bench on the way down. The fall itself is the real danger.
I think the point is powerful people with money don’t give a shit about the peasants. I don’t think that’s the case here, but I’m using my context clues to understand the point, given that OP used this language: “living decorations”.
Still more powerful than us. Do you have a palace with a bunch of red coat guards? Does everyone on the planet know you and your family? Do you still worry about money and retirement and providing for your family? Would your life be turned upside down if you lost your job and couldn’t find something for a few years?
You just described the majority of heads of state. Except for the fame part (everyone on the planet knowing someone, even then, the Commonwealth Royal Family aren’t the only famous family)
I think heads of state are probably a little better off. They have influence and power to get new jobs and access to opportunities. Have you seen a poor person before?
I think I gave you the wrong impression, I don’t think that. I just thought they might have strict rules and all that and his superiors might not be so kind to him.
I love how they are trained to not help. Good job, braindead drones.
There are dedicated stretcher bearers to take them away.
you do realize that there being dedicated stretcher bearers makes it about a hundred times worse, right?
Hey, a wild Uhm, akshully appears!
hey, a wild nonce supporter appears!
It does? Any moderately large and well organised public gathering in Britain would have at least one set of paramedics on standby. Is that so terrible?
idk, is it terrible to put people in danger for the vain narcissism of an anachronistic figure of government? I suppose the answer depends on how much of a bootlicker you are.
Surely the bootlicker would be the one worrying about soldiers stubbing a toe or whatever.
no, cause they have dedicated toe stubbing medics on hand!
Dedicated medical personnel is bad?
that ain’t my argument, and you know it, you twatwaffle.
Intentionally putting a large number of people in a position that they are likely to pass out from heat exhaustion isn’t normally considered a good thing…
Especially, when it’s because it “looks cool”. And your response to this knowledge, isn’t to change putting them in that situation, but dedicate people to picking them up and getting them out of sight.
if they knew what they were signing up for, why shouldn’t the employer be allowed to use harm mitigation rather than improve safety ?
what in the late stage capitalist neo-liberal bullshit is this?
human suffering for hire
This is exactly the capitalist excuse a lot of employers use until someone gets seriously hurt or dies.
They are allowed, and we are allowed to think they are shitty for treating other humans that way.
Except they do.
Nooooooo.
Don’t bring facts into this discussion. How else would i show my signature superiority complex.
Yeah. People don’t like their outrage being quelled here.
Is this loss?
oh my.
Seems more like reverse loss
Edit: maybe rotating the frames rather than reversing?
You’re still defending a public display for a monarch who doesn’t have to do any real work even once in their life and gets everything handed to them on a silver platter
A bootlicker is a bootlicker
We need somebody to be our head of state
Somebody who happened to be born in a ruling family? That’s just stupid. “Monarchy” more like moronity
E: love to see bootlickers getting mad about being called out
Far better than deceiving the public and cheating and lying your way into power.
Sounds like you think I’m an American: in decent countries voting actually works, AND we don’t have to prop up rapists like prince Andrew
How’s it going with a President
Better than having to fund the lifestyles of rapists like prince Andrew. I’m not American so I don’t have to worry about having a rapist being our president, either…
I don’t see any of the other “soldiers” moving in to help here. Or are you talking about the random person that runs in? And if so, how does that prove in any way that the soldiers themselves aren’t trained to ignore fallen comrades? These pictures just make it look worse cuz his buddies literally just have to stand there and wait for someone else to rush in
Those aren’t “random people”. They’re literally in military uniform. What are the ones next to him supposed to do about it? Make a big fuss and cancel the parade over a common occurrence? In fact, this happens quite commonly across the world.
When I sung in a choir in primary school. we were literally told if someone faints in front of us during a performance, to ignore it and keep singing. We thought it was an over-exaggeration. Until the Christmas concert when someone literally fainted in front of us during it and we kept singing. Of course, the teachers then came and rushed to their aid and carefully brought them away. So during organised performances like this- it’s quite standard not to freak out if somebody faints.
For some reason my mind replaced “faints” and “fainted” with “farts” and “farted” when I read this. Had to go back and re-read lol.
Yes the correct course of action when someone farts is to freak out and try to help them
Maybe don’t put a group of human beings in a situation where they’re constantly passing out then? Especially if they’re children, it’s wild that that’s the comparison you use. The issue here isn’t JUST that they’re expected to do nothing when comrades are in trouble (yes, even with trained help there), but it’s ALSO that people like you excuse it because it’s “the norm.” Like sure, yippee, they have trained help for when they pass out, but apparently they’re EXPECTED to pass out? Ok
By that logic we should close all roads because we EXPECT automobile crashes to happen, we should cease all construction and industry because we EXPECT accidents to happen, we should ban all sports because we EXPECT injuries to happen, etc.
I’m chiming in as someone who actually fainted during a choir practice. Our teacher cautioned us at least five different times not to lock our legs for that exact reason, but in the moment I wasn’t thinking, and I locked my legs. It happened only one time, and I was the only kid who fainted in the entire four years I sang in that choir. But oh, how inhumane of our school for hosting a choir recital (gasp!). It sure was evil of them to put us in a situation with a normal level of risk while trained first aid personnel were present.
I think maybe you’re just severely overestimating how much it happens. The other person used the word “commonly,” but you used the word “constantly,” and that is not the same thing at all. We have to prepare for the most common mishaps because there are inherent risks in everything we do. But I assure you, if people were constantly passing out in parades and choir recitals, we would stop having them.
Why the heck is locking your knees making you faint? How’s that work?
Locking your knees causes more blood to pool in the lower extremities so less of it reaches the brain. It normally takes at least several continuous minutes of standing with your knees locked like this to faint. It sometimes happens when singing in a choir, or standing in formation, because
a) you have to stand in the same position for extended periods of time,
b) your body is consuming oxygen faster because of singing, a warm uniform, and/or hot weather, and
c) you may be so focused on your task that you disregard your discomfort and don’t even realize you’re locking your knees or feeling faint.
When I fainted in choir rehearsal, I think I was only unconscious for a couple seconds. I fell forward on my hands and knees and came to my senses at the choir director’s feet. I felt really flushed and clammy at the same time, almost feverish, and it took a few more seconds after I regained consciousness for my vision to clear. Basically as soon as I was horizontal and normal blood flow resumed, I started to recover immediately. But if heat stroke or other factors are involved, that might not be the case. I don’t envy that soldier being carried on a stretcher in that picture; I don’t know what kind of environmental factors or underlying conditions may have been involved.
What use is for “soldiers” (they seem more like exhibition pieces…) standing around for someone who just happened to be born in the right family, and now has all the wealth they could ever need and a thousand times more?
A road facilitates transport, what good is wasting money for a monarch?
Monarchy defenders perplex me, how can your tongue be so deep in someone’s boot
Oh, I’m not defending the monarchy at all. They can absolutely go to hell. There is a big leap between “the monarchy is fundamentally evil” and “standard military parade practices around the world are unsafe,” and then to “we shouldn’t let children perform in choirs because they’re constantly fainting.” I latched on to that latter piece because it’s so ridiculous.
Extremely valid and important argument against car infrastructure presented as a clownish slippery slope
what other options works for moving one(s) of people hundreds of miles?
Trains and buses.
This is an example of the slippery slope fallacy. Logic would not take you down that line of thinking.
Slippery slope isn’t a fallacy. It’s a widely observed pattern.
It can be both
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slippery_slope
These military proceedings for monarchies are completely unnecessary, and can VERY EASILY be done in a way that doesn’t put people in danger. It’s not about that though, it’s about a show of force, showing your army that you own that you can command to do whatever you want, including standing to the point of fainting, and that’s supposed to be something to be proud of?
That situation is COMPLETELY DIFFERENT from any of the NECESSARY examples you listed. Examples that already have safety precautions in place that are reviewed and updated regularly based on current situations
So, yes, this is an example of the fallacy
I don’t know the details of the military demonstrations, but singing in a choir as a kid in front of hundreds of parents is exactly the kind of scary thing with no actual danger that can really help kids grow and conquer fears.
They’re not expected to. But it happens. If you have concerts, people usually pass out. That’s why you have trained medical staff on standby, no matter the event. It’s just that the military has an organised way of doing it… Because it’s the military.
Are these people ACTUALLY their military though, or just for show? I always thought they were just for show but I don’t actually know. Not that it makes a huge difference, just curious
They do put on public displays, but they’re actual soldiers in the army. Their primary duty is as a guard.
They’re actual soldiers.
they are not doctors nor qualified to help and even so, they know there is someone on the sideline who is the person to help in these situations
So ignore the bigger problem because the already provided temporary solution might keep your friend from suffering permanent damage, after being put into a situation known to lead to this outcome.
It’s crazy how hard people miss the memo on this.
You are in parade formation. One of your coworkers collapses from strain. You do not help because your boss hazed you into subservience. This is fine because idk maybe someone else will be by to handle things eventually.
Fucking corporatist mindset on steroids. People are denuded of their empathy in their quest to perfectly follow orders.
I wonder how any one of these freaks behave in a torture blacksite when their bosses line up another round of “enemy combatants” for waterboarding…
Thank you, finally someone else with some empathy not excusing every stupid unnecessary thing monarchs force on their subjects. Even ones in the military.
I also agree with you, I just didnt have anything to add. Its sad but I have to say its not surprising, the reaction you are getting.
Literally the dedicated medical team monitoring everyone and equipped and prepared for this common situation.
I think his point is that intentionally putting someone where they are likely to pass out isn’t a good thing.
Even worse when you put them in wildly inappropriate clothing. And a oven for a hat. For… showing off.
And lastly, it should be noted that people (even young healthy ones) literally die from heat exhaustion.
If they’re going to die from standing in the British sun for half an hour, the Army recruitment medical examiners really fucked up.
We actually don’t know what happened, locking your knees can cause this as well. I’m not disagreeing with you, it is absolutely an unnecessary display with some archaic traditions. But calling the other soldiers “freaks” for letting the trained and available medical professionals handle the situation was unfair.
I guess you could argue the other soldiers are already in too deep? Is that punching down then in this case?
Wonder what happened to that guy. I don’t think he didn’t face any consequences for embarassing them.
I don’t see why he would have? Fainting is a natural human biological function. And if you think that someone - who put their life on the line for our country - succumbing to that is an “embarrassment”, then you are an embarrassment.
He most likely locked his knees standing at attention too long. It’s not an uncommon occurrence in training. I saw one guy do it during a locker inspection and whack his head hard on a bench on the way down. The fall itself is the real danger.
I was in JROTC in high school and before some ceremony the colonel explicitly warned us about this exact thing. I don’t remember anyone passing out.
I think the point is powerful people with money don’t give a shit about the peasants. I don’t think that’s the case here, but I’m using my context clues to understand the point, given that OP used this language: “living decorations”.
The Queen was known to discreetly enquire as to the condition of soldiers who passed out on parade though.
But didn’t bother to stop with this inane practice of displaying power gained through being born in the right family?
The royal family aren’t too powerful de facto. At least Elizabeth II was quite down to earth and an excellent lady. Charles III isn’t too bad either
Still more powerful than us. Do you have a palace with a bunch of red coat guards? Does everyone on the planet know you and your family? Do you still worry about money and retirement and providing for your family? Would your life be turned upside down if you lost your job and couldn’t find something for a few years?
You just described the majority of heads of state. Except for the fame part (everyone on the planet knowing someone, even then, the Commonwealth Royal Family aren’t the only famous family)
I think heads of state are probably a little better off. They have influence and power to get new jobs and access to opportunities. Have you seen a poor person before?
I think I gave you the wrong impression, I don’t think that. I just thought they might have strict rules and all that and his superiors might not be so kind to him.
This isn’t North Korea. If anything, his comrades would probably take the mick out of him
Nice.
Lemmy ahh comment.