That’s a lot of anger you’re spitting just because someone doesn’t want to hear screaming children. My siblings and I were never allowed to scream in public.
Every child screams in public at some point? That’s normal development. You and I did too. They may just be excited.
Of course if a child is screaming constantly then the parents need to intervene. But expecting children to be seen but not heard is unrealistic by any standard.
Hmm my mother says I was quiet and I observed normal amounts of fussiness from my other siblings that was far less than screaming at the top of their lungs. If they had done that, they would have been shushed, comforted, talked to, or taken somewhere else because my parents took responsibility for their own decisions and for what their children did. Instead of pretending it’s hopeless and that whatever impulse we had was fine.
Not really. There are kids louder than others. And while there may be some internal aspects to that a lot of that have to do with education. Specially as they grow and education starts becoming more a defining factor.
Yes, I have a lot of anger for people who meet the most vulnerable parts of our society with hostility. I have an immense anger for people who don’t think these vulnerable people in the making have a place in society.
Congratulations on not being allowed to scream in public, ever. Did you good. Your parents had shitty standards and now you want to enforce these on other children so that they will also grow up and hate children. Great idea.
What you don’t understand (or pretend not to) is that you’re the one being judged, not the kids. It seems obvious from this chain that your kids are out of control and you get judged for it. I can think of no other reason you’d act this way.
Honestly, the judgement of parenting is not my main issue here. It’s the hypocrisy of at the same time saying “this is your problem, not mine” and “you have to deal with your problem so that I am not inconvenienced.”
Like, you can’t have it both ways. Either you don’t care, and then other people deserve the right to also not care about your opinion, or you do indeed care, and then it is your problem too. Your quote about not being part of the village is the one that I am saying fuck off to. You want to take yourself out of society and of the context, yet expect the other part to not take themselves out of society. You don’t even decide to look away, you decide to look with destructive criticism. I don’t see how this is supposed to help anyone, you included.
You come off as the type of person who will look at both the kid and the parent in disdain for being a nuisance even when they did something absolutely minor that you could easily avoid, ignore, or get away from. Are you assuming the kid will differentiate between your reaction towards them and their parent? Or that your reaction has no effect on the parent’s treatment of their child, perhaps in a more negative than positive way?
As for the judgement part, as I have pointed out somewhere else, you are seeing a sniplet of a day, of a life, of an hour. Yet you feel like you have enough information to rightfully judge. It’s correct that the kid might be subjected to bad, neglectful parenting and the parents do not care if their kid behaves awfully. Or you might have just met them in a vulnerable, bad moment. Somehow you know tho. Why not give them the benefit of the doubt or, God forbid, ask whether yoh can help? Offer a supporting smile to someone struggling? Why be hostile instead?
Because even if you took a perfect parent who does everything according to textbook from beginning to end, the kid will still have meltdowns in the most inconvenient and absurdly embarrassing moments in public.
And I have seen way too many parents who devote an insane amount of time and effort to their parenting, are reflected and have the best intentions and approaches, are incredibly level headed and collected (definitely not me tho), and give it their all, still being talked down upon by absolute strangers if they cannot make their preschool kid calm down within ten seconds. If these parents don’t stand a chance in the eye of public scrutiny, then I just don’t even know how a normal parent who doesn’t spend 24/7 thinking about their parenting choices has a chance.
I’ve also seen cases of what I would call bad parenting. Shaming, yelling, ignoring cries for help. But at least I can realise that I don’t know the full story. So unless I have a direct offer of help (tissue, water, bandaid, carrying something, etc) I let them be and hope that they know what they are doing and handling the situation to the best of their ability. I also know a kid who died of shaken baby syndrome because the new partner of their mom couldn’t handle the cries. I’d much prefer he ignored the cries and tantrums instead of killing the two year old boy.
It’s the hypocrisy of at the same time saying “this is your problem, not mine” and “you have to deal with your problem so that I am not inconvenienced.”
What the hell are you even talking about? It’s not complicated. Because you aren’t taking care of the issue, it became mine (and every other person being bothered). I can’t take enough drugs to understand how that wouldn’t be obvious, or how it could be “hypocrisy”. What the actual fuck. I chose not to have kids, you chose to. Therefore I cannot and should not be expected to help them not lose their shit. That is your job. Do it.
Also, you confused me with someone else. I didn’t mention “the village”. You must have also missed my comment where I said that I lost my empathy for you after your ragey diatribes where you shirk all your responsibility.
And for the record, when I see the parent actually trying, I don’t judge them, I just try to get through it and ignore the child’s cries, such as a baby screaming on a plane. What I cannot have compassion for are the people who do not seem to be trying in the least. Which is far too common.
I think the point of contention is that the user you debate is under the (right) assumption that when a child cries in public, this is just a small snapshot out of all the time the parents took them to any public place. A child crying is not a bug, it’s an inherent feature. They sometimes just do that, they don’t even know themselves, so it’s not the parents fault that their mini-human isn’t behaving like a fucking Gucci bag. Everything volvoxvsmarla said is true, children learn through trial an error and yes, you need to sometimes take the brunt of this process, I’m sorry little one. When children don’t learn how to behave in (for example) supermarkets because you banned them, then you get teenagers who didn’t learn to behave. You can’t pass the problem on forever. I’m a teacher and it really fucking shows when kids never learned how to exist in a public place.
BTW., this is not an excuse for parents who evidently don’t give a fuck or even worse, motivate their children to be brats so they entertain themselves. Scum of the earth. But it’s perfectly possible for parents to try their hardest and still fail sometimes.
No one is saying kids shouldn’t be allowed in public. They’re saying if your kid is losing their shit in a restaurant, remove them from the restaurant until they are done losing their shit.
I can tell you a specific scenario I take issue with. At the grocery store the other day, a child screamed at the top of its lungs all over the store. The parent never seemed to notice or care, but people everywhere were looking at each other, all clearly bothered. I’m sorry but that’s not my problem, that’s their shit to work out and they clearly don’t give a shit about others. Shitty parenting, 100% worthy of judgement.
We don’t have to assume that everyone bothered by kids at all hates kids or has no tolerance for their annoyances. OP did that, and took out what seems obvious to me as parental stress on users ITT. So I don’t really have much capacity left to empathize with them in particular.
Neglectful parenting is worthy of judgement. What I take an issue with is that what you observed was a situation - it was a snapshot of a whole day, of a whole life that these people lead. Is the issue that they didn’t care, that they didn’t try to console the kid? How often did you, as an adult, get mad and calmed down after someone said “calm down”? Are you just bothered that they didn’t remove the kid from the situation for your convenience, as well as for their own embarrassment asap? There can be so many reasons why the kid screamed (didn’t get a piece of candy, didn’t get to throw over cans of beans - which you wohld also not like, probably and understandably -, was told to calm down, had a fight with a sibling, hurt themselves, couldn’t get a booger out), why the parents didn’t care (did they not care, did you see them after they had already tried to calm the kid down, talk to them, walk them through everything, do they try not to give more attention to something that was already talked about, or, god forbid, might they just be absolutely exhausted after the 5th tantrum with no reason in a row), why they didn’t leave (great idea to leave behind a full trolley with products for the workers to put back and go home with no groceries after having already spent time and energy to go to the store and have the shopping almost completed, also cool lesson for the kid that it can just yell long enough if they don’t like being somewhere so that they can leave. Works great in schools and hospitals too). But you saw that and decided the kid is feral and the parents are awful human beings that should have no right to a kid.
You both say that’s not your problem and they have to work it out, yet you are absolutely making it your problem and demand they work it out in a way that you find suiting.
I see so many people who think that if you are just loving and caring to a child and work them through their emotions and all they will be just reasoned to calm down. Man, this isn’t even how it works for adults, with developed brains. You guys don’t just expect too much of parents but also of kids. They cannot reason themselves out of these situations just as their arms are simply to short to wipe their own butts for the first three years.
And you might think you only judge the parents and not the kids, but the kids do feel your disdain. They feel your lack of compassion, understanding, and companionship. They learn so fast that the world is full of people who don’t like them. I’m not even going to start with the parents who are being judged no matter what they do. They are judged because their kid is their own person, that has a personality, and if that isn’t a pleasant personality, well fuck them. And if their kid is pleasant, then they have been too controlling and demanding and were too strict and helicoptered them into obedience.
If you, however, have friends or relatives that you know and see regularly and can make a more sophisticated guess on their parenting style, that might be another issue. Still a high horse to judge from, especially when you don’t have kids, but at least you have more than one point in time to make assumptions from.
What you don’t understand is that if that parent gives into the crying and does something different, that child will now continue that behavior because they learned if i scream long enough loud enough, I get my way. Yeah it sucks to be you to have to listen to the crying being a grown-up and all. But it probably sucks to be the parent in that situation even more.
That’s a lot of anger you’re spitting just because someone doesn’t want to hear screaming children. My siblings and I were never allowed to scream in public.
That person really feels entitled to inflict their children’s bad behavior on everyone else around them.
We should sterilize people who’s children tantrum in public, and have social services take their children.
You were not allowed to but I can guarantee that you were still screaming in public.
Every child screams in public at some point? That’s normal development. You and I did too. They may just be excited.
Of course if a child is screaming constantly then the parents need to intervene. But expecting children to be seen but not heard is unrealistic by any standard.
Hmm my mother says I was quiet and I observed normal amounts of fussiness from my other siblings that was far less than screaming at the top of their lungs. If they had done that, they would have been shushed, comforted, talked to, or taken somewhere else because my parents took responsibility for their own decisions and for what their children did. Instead of pretending it’s hopeless and that whatever impulse we had was fine.
Not really. There are kids louder than others. And while there may be some internal aspects to that a lot of that have to do with education. Specially as they grow and education starts becoming more a defining factor.
Yes, I have a lot of anger for people who meet the most vulnerable parts of our society with hostility. I have an immense anger for people who don’t think these vulnerable people in the making have a place in society.
Congratulations on not being allowed to scream in public, ever. Did you good. Your parents had shitty standards and now you want to enforce these on other children so that they will also grow up and hate children. Great idea.
We are not talking about kids babe, we are talking about YOU that is too tired to educate
What you don’t understand (or pretend not to) is that you’re the one being judged, not the kids. It seems obvious from this chain that your kids are out of control and you get judged for it. I can think of no other reason you’d act this way.
Honestly, the judgement of parenting is not my main issue here. It’s the hypocrisy of at the same time saying “this is your problem, not mine” and “you have to deal with your problem so that I am not inconvenienced.”
Like, you can’t have it both ways. Either you don’t care, and then other people deserve the right to also not care about your opinion, or you do indeed care, and then it is your problem too. Your quote about not being part of the village is the one that I am saying fuck off to. You want to take yourself out of society and of the context, yet expect the other part to not take themselves out of society. You don’t even decide to look away, you decide to look with destructive criticism. I don’t see how this is supposed to help anyone, you included.
You come off as the type of person who will look at both the kid and the parent in disdain for being a nuisance even when they did something absolutely minor that you could easily avoid, ignore, or get away from. Are you assuming the kid will differentiate between your reaction towards them and their parent? Or that your reaction has no effect on the parent’s treatment of their child, perhaps in a more negative than positive way?
As for the judgement part, as I have pointed out somewhere else, you are seeing a sniplet of a day, of a life, of an hour. Yet you feel like you have enough information to rightfully judge. It’s correct that the kid might be subjected to bad, neglectful parenting and the parents do not care if their kid behaves awfully. Or you might have just met them in a vulnerable, bad moment. Somehow you know tho. Why not give them the benefit of the doubt or, God forbid, ask whether yoh can help? Offer a supporting smile to someone struggling? Why be hostile instead?
Because even if you took a perfect parent who does everything according to textbook from beginning to end, the kid will still have meltdowns in the most inconvenient and absurdly embarrassing moments in public.
And I have seen way too many parents who devote an insane amount of time and effort to their parenting, are reflected and have the best intentions and approaches, are incredibly level headed and collected (definitely not me tho), and give it their all, still being talked down upon by absolute strangers if they cannot make their preschool kid calm down within ten seconds. If these parents don’t stand a chance in the eye of public scrutiny, then I just don’t even know how a normal parent who doesn’t spend 24/7 thinking about their parenting choices has a chance.
I’ve also seen cases of what I would call bad parenting. Shaming, yelling, ignoring cries for help. But at least I can realise that I don’t know the full story. So unless I have a direct offer of help (tissue, water, bandaid, carrying something, etc) I let them be and hope that they know what they are doing and handling the situation to the best of their ability. I also know a kid who died of shaken baby syndrome because the new partner of their mom couldn’t handle the cries. I’d much prefer he ignored the cries and tantrums instead of killing the two year old boy.
What the hell are you even talking about? It’s not complicated. Because you aren’t taking care of the issue, it became mine (and every other person being bothered). I can’t take enough drugs to understand how that wouldn’t be obvious, or how it could be “hypocrisy”. What the actual fuck. I chose not to have kids, you chose to. Therefore I cannot and should not be expected to help them not lose their shit. That is your job. Do it.
Also, you confused me with someone else. I didn’t mention “the village”. You must have also missed my comment where I said that I lost my empathy for you after your ragey diatribes where you shirk all your responsibility.
And for the record, when I see the parent actually trying, I don’t judge them, I just try to get through it and ignore the child’s cries, such as a baby screaming on a plane. What I cannot have compassion for are the people who do not seem to be trying in the least. Which is far too common.
I think the point of contention is that the user you debate is under the (right) assumption that when a child cries in public, this is just a small snapshot out of all the time the parents took them to any public place. A child crying is not a bug, it’s an inherent feature. They sometimes just do that, they don’t even know themselves, so it’s not the parents fault that their mini-human isn’t behaving like a fucking Gucci bag. Everything volvoxvsmarla said is true, children learn through trial an error and yes, you need to sometimes take the brunt of this process, I’m sorry little one. When children don’t learn how to behave in (for example) supermarkets because you banned them, then you get teenagers who didn’t learn to behave. You can’t pass the problem on forever. I’m a teacher and it really fucking shows when kids never learned how to exist in a public place.
BTW., this is not an excuse for parents who evidently don’t give a fuck or even worse, motivate their children to be brats so they entertain themselves. Scum of the earth. But it’s perfectly possible for parents to try their hardest and still fail sometimes.
No one is saying kids shouldn’t be allowed in public. They’re saying if your kid is losing their shit in a restaurant, remove them from the restaurant until they are done losing their shit.
I can tell you a specific scenario I take issue with. At the grocery store the other day, a child screamed at the top of its lungs all over the store. The parent never seemed to notice or care, but people everywhere were looking at each other, all clearly bothered. I’m sorry but that’s not my problem, that’s their shit to work out and they clearly don’t give a shit about others. Shitty parenting, 100% worthy of judgement.
We don’t have to assume that everyone bothered by kids at all hates kids or has no tolerance for their annoyances. OP did that, and took out what seems obvious to me as parental stress on users ITT. So I don’t really have much capacity left to empathize with them in particular.
Neglectful parenting is worthy of judgement. What I take an issue with is that what you observed was a situation - it was a snapshot of a whole day, of a whole life that these people lead. Is the issue that they didn’t care, that they didn’t try to console the kid? How often did you, as an adult, get mad and calmed down after someone said “calm down”? Are you just bothered that they didn’t remove the kid from the situation for your convenience, as well as for their own embarrassment asap? There can be so many reasons why the kid screamed (didn’t get a piece of candy, didn’t get to throw over cans of beans - which you wohld also not like, probably and understandably -, was told to calm down, had a fight with a sibling, hurt themselves, couldn’t get a booger out), why the parents didn’t care (did they not care, did you see them after they had already tried to calm the kid down, talk to them, walk them through everything, do they try not to give more attention to something that was already talked about, or, god forbid, might they just be absolutely exhausted after the 5th tantrum with no reason in a row), why they didn’t leave (great idea to leave behind a full trolley with products for the workers to put back and go home with no groceries after having already spent time and energy to go to the store and have the shopping almost completed, also cool lesson for the kid that it can just yell long enough if they don’t like being somewhere so that they can leave. Works great in schools and hospitals too). But you saw that and decided the kid is feral and the parents are awful human beings that should have no right to a kid.
You both say that’s not your problem and they have to work it out, yet you are absolutely making it your problem and demand they work it out in a way that you find suiting.
I see so many people who think that if you are just loving and caring to a child and work them through their emotions and all they will be just reasoned to calm down. Man, this isn’t even how it works for adults, with developed brains. You guys don’t just expect too much of parents but also of kids. They cannot reason themselves out of these situations just as their arms are simply to short to wipe their own butts for the first three years.
And you might think you only judge the parents and not the kids, but the kids do feel your disdain. They feel your lack of compassion, understanding, and companionship. They learn so fast that the world is full of people who don’t like them. I’m not even going to start with the parents who are being judged no matter what they do. They are judged because their kid is their own person, that has a personality, and if that isn’t a pleasant personality, well fuck them. And if their kid is pleasant, then they have been too controlling and demanding and were too strict and helicoptered them into obedience.
If you, however, have friends or relatives that you know and see regularly and can make a more sophisticated guess on their parenting style, that might be another issue. Still a high horse to judge from, especially when you don’t have kids, but at least you have more than one point in time to make assumptions from.
That’s a lot of apologia. I get the point though. Their/your decision to have children is my problem and fuck me. But actually fuck that.
What you don’t understand is that if that parent gives into the crying and does something different, that child will now continue that behavior because they learned if i scream long enough loud enough, I get my way. Yeah it sucks to be you to have to listen to the crying being a grown-up and all. But it probably sucks to be the parent in that situation even more.
Also fuck you bud.
Yes this is the kind of excuse needed to give up trying and let the world bear the consequences. Thanks for your valuable input.
Wow whiny little bitch aren’t we?
No your kids are. Be mad that no one around you appreciates it, I’m sure that’ll solve the problem.