Following https://tarte.nuage-libre.fr/c/fediverse/p/194717/we-need-more-users I decided to explore data a little bit more. I’m not the biggest fan of growth-as-as-target so I wanted to see how much the people were participating in the discussion.
The data
I took the data from the API explorer in https://api.fediverse.observer/ with this query:
query {
monthlystats {
date_checked
softwarename
total_posts
total_users
total_comments
}
}
Then parsed the json with this https://jqlang.org/ filter:
jq '.data.monthlystats | map(select(.total_users > 0 and (.softwarename == "lemmy" or .softwarename == "mbin" or .softwarename == "kbin" or .softwarename == "piefed"))) | group_by(.date_checked) | map( {date_checked: .[0].date_checked, total_users: ([.[] | .total_users] | add), total_posts: ([.[] | .total_posts] | add), total_comments: ([.[] | .total_comments] | add)}) | map({date_checked, posts: .total_posts/.total_users, comments: .total_comments/.total_users}) | sort_by(.date_checked) | map([.date_checked, (.posts | tostring), (.comments | tostring)]) | .[] | @csv'
(As you see I filtered for the threadiverse. I also did the same with all software, I’ll put the graph for that in comments)
Then did a good old’ chart
What to think of it
I don’t know. Users’ activity is on the rise and I find it nice
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Niche hobbies and small communities (that are active) is what is needed
For that we need a LOT more users. It’s kind of a chicken and egg situation.
Hopefully we can capitalise on the next Rexit.
In the past lots of people moved over but left because of the terrible UX. I think PieFed has solved most of the UX issues.
Reddit had the additional benefit of being found through google… that’s how i learned about the site.
you cant google your way into this place - and that’s a huge limitation, when it comes to expanding the user base with random normal people.
If you Google for “beans no pooping challenge” https://lemmy.eco.br/post/113558?scrollToComments=true at least appears on the first page of results - that’s progress, baby!
Yes.
Do we want Reddit amounts of users? No.
But there’s a lot of growth between here and there.
Need to gain slighty more than we lose every year to stay healthy.
Why?
because the alternative is to lose more than we gain each year because the option to “stay exactly the same” is statistically unlikely as it has a probability of around 0%.
Let’s keep it just under critical mass for Eternal September to not happen.
That was over 30 years ago, longer than I’ve been alive. I just want niche communities to subscribe to (Cities: Skylines, model trains, Madison WI) instead of the constant barrage of generic politics, Linux obsession, and low effort memes.
That was over 30 years ago
It was over 30 years ago that the term was coined. As a concept, it happens all the time. It happened with Reddit multiple times.
Yeah, it’s happened multiple times that a website has reached critical mass such that normal people start joining and posting a variety of interests, rather than just non-stop posting about their super duper hardened non-fingerprintable self hosted LibreWolf instance with VPN to prevent those dirty big tech companies from stealing their precious browsing history data. No one will ever know how much they prefer AMD cards over NVIDIA and that they use Arch BTW! And general news and politics (Capitalism Bad™).
What’s that supposed to mean?
Maybe its a question of organization. Perhaps we shouldn’t have generic instances just instances around topics. That way niches can form without being too fractured and if said topic goes away it does not take several other coms with it.
One issue is I think Lemmy’s UX means there’s less friction with local communities than remote communities (not sure why) which is why usually the lemmy.world version of communities typically wins without a lot of effort to steer people
Moderation reports are currently not federated (well they are in PieFed, but not in Lemmy) - at some point that will be added, but for all this time after the Rexodus this has been true. This lack of federation has hindered the growth of the Threadiverse.
Lemmy v1.0 has suffered too much scope creep, this update is way late while PieFed runs circles around Lemmy
Worse, I find that Lemmy typically (vastly) under-delivers what was promised even. Like for many years people were promised the capability to do personal “instance blocking”, and for a long time after the Rexodus there were calls to avoid defederating places like lemmy.ml or lemmygrad.ml or even hexbear.net, because that feature was “coming soon™”.
Then when that change did finally come, it only muted communities on that instance yet still left users to be able to reply in other communities, plus they could still vote on and thereby influence your content (hexbear is KNOWN for its brigading tactics). And then a subsequent bugfix opened it up still further to allow such “blocked” users the capability to send you a private DM, even pinging you with notifications - which on Lemmy (highly unlike PieFed) there is no way to stop that, even for WEEKs and WEEKs after you stop engaging… your consent to selectively stop such incoming pings does not matter, realistically (technically you could block every single person from an instance, one-by-one… but even there, you would have to bot that or do it the extremely tedious manual way, as the software provides no tools to aid with that). PieFed has offered the ability to block all users from an instance for over a year now.
The only counter-argument to the above is that software - especially FOSS (although Lemmy devs even get paid?!?) - takes time to develop. Which makes things like the bugs and inefficiencies that remain in Lemmy for years and years all the more disheartening. And then here comes PieFed, running around Lemmy in circles, it is almost no comparison at all.
And then I’m sure that I do not need to list out the rather LONG list of features that PieFed offers that aids community discovery - it’s quite amazing to see actually:-). PieFed is a game-changer for the Threadiverse, and might just keep it alive whereas it would otherwise have either died off or at least remained in obscurity forever known as a mere linux (& politics) forum. As things keep moving forward though, I think one day it could rival BlueSky, at least in terms of features offered, though whether a non-profit FOSS could ever overcome the strong network effect will remain to be seen… For that I think we would need a modmail, definitely notification upon content removal, perhaps better searching capability, maybe better modlog access, but not much else? (& 3rd party apps catching up to offer its features but that is not PieFed’s work anymore, now that so much has been exposed in the APIs)
This defeats the purpose of the platform being distributed. For example if all political threads are on one instance it would be a ripe target for the authoritarian regimes popping up right now. I know there are dominant instances, but at least if one drops, people can migrate.
I’d rather see better discovery tools and better community/account migration tools. Id be worried about topic-specific instances potentially backfiring by concentrating too much influence for a given set of subjects on the “preferred” instances
better discovery tools
i think communities should have links to “related communities” in their sidebar sothat people can find similar communities more easily.
There could even be a “recommended” posts listing, besides the “subscribed”/“local”/“all” as it is today. it would show you posts from linked communities from communities that you already subscribed to too.
Good discovery tools are essential on a federated platform. An important part of twitter, facebook, and reddit success is/was that that they were the place for their particular style of content. You had a pretty good chance of being able to discover your old high school friends, because they were on the one platform. Then the (early) algorithm started discovering for you all the obscure content similar to your history.
Discovery has to work differently in a federated system. You can search for communities on Lemmy, but if your instance doesn’t already have someone subscribed to a community, then you’re not going to find it.
The amount of furry / anime content on the front page might be putting off some new users
lemmy is basically NSFW because of this, yes. the amount of furry anime porn that reaches the front page is crazy.
i don’t get why it being pushed, but I suppose it’s just the userbase is very active and passionate about that stuff so it rises to the top.
I’ve been blocking communities and posters as they pop up. It works until someone spins up a new instance for it, but then you can just block that as well.
yes, i can.
but it’s problematic if I have to do that every day. It’s almost a daily part of my use of lemmy.
I don’t want to have to block stuff as a part of my daily use.
this is actually the reason I don’t use tiktok or instagram. because my user experience was block block block, everytime I used it. And it never stopped shoveling the shit I didn’t want to see into my face. and a lot of it was pornographic clickbait crap.
i liked it back when it was smaller, but around 2020/2021 both platforms decided to shove tits in my face non stop. and i wasn’t on those platforms for tits. I was on there for my hobbies, but it kept pushing porn on me. so i stopped using it entirely. i still use youtube because youtube isn’t constantly shoveling porno shit in my face.
that’s kind of what lemmy feels like. except it’s with furryies, linux, etc. even when I block stuff more of it keeps popping up. i want to see more generalist content related to general interests, not content from people who are fetishists.
i have been on lemmy over two years. my first 1.5 years i hardly ever had to block anything, because shit content i dont’ like wasn’t flooding my feed. when i first got here it was just a lot of general news/science/information and link aggregation about nerdy stuff, which i really liked and why i liked reddit. i know there was furry porn on reddit from it’s inception, but I never had to see any of it unless i went looking for it specifically, like a lot of the fetish stuff on reddit.
Try PieFed. The reason you keep seeing furry content on Lemmy is that you are forced into browsing “All” in order to see some new content, but then you don’t like some of the new content that you see.
On PieFed with categories of communities (instance-defined Topic areas and user Feeds that are user-customizeable and shareable) you can have your cake (have a tight Subscribed feed, e.g. without being subscribed to any politics communities if you wanted) but then also eat it too (news & politics content is but a click away, or movies & TV).
Combining together comments across all cross-posts also helps a lot with community discovery. I haven’t searched by All in a long time, unless I just felt nostalgic and wanted to, but there is no longer any need with this new model.
piefed is full of memes. i hate it.
i also am annoyed at having it constantly shrilled at me. i am thinking about blocking it.
I would also have shared any solutions I was aware of using Lemmy, except that after using it for 3 years, I know of very little that can be done about it. Just to be on the safe side though, I will note that you could theoretically use the Subscribed feed rather than All? That will show exclusively content that you have subscribed to, hence zero furry memes (unless they somehow wormed their way into the wrong community, in which case feel free to report them).
Fwiw I did not downvote you here: sharing your experiences is very relevant to this conversation. That said, we are just trying to help you find what you are looking for, and your comment does include inaccurate information.
e.g. out of the top 15 communities on PieFed.social only 3 have memes and the rest are much more information dense. Also viewing PieFed.social without an account, I see only a single meme in the top 15 posts shown by default. Also it’s chief developer shares your distaste for “low information content” posts and has several tools in place to help limit them, like the ability to filter not only communities one by one but also by any keywords contained within them, e.g. “memes”. Thus even if you used a 3rd party app, you would still have this automated filter in place. This is because PieFed is not merely another Lemmy instance but an entire reimplementation (from scratch) of the ActivityPub Protocol, i.e. it is software.
But I am not trying to shill it to you anymore, just wanting to correct your statements. I hope you find what you are looking for. Note that it will take some effort on your part to understand the reasons why things happen and what aspects of the tools that you choose to use are under your control - e.g. you could move to an instance that defederates from meme content? (I do not know of any, but in theory you could, or perhaps start up your own if nothing else.)
Have a good day.
Without trying to shill it to you, it has the same content you would see on lemmy.world. It’s no more memey than lemmy.world.
that isn’t true. anytime i have gone there it’s WAY more memey. it looks more like mastrodon/twitter than reddit.
I am not interesting in meme platforms.
Just my two cents, but there’s just no reason for people to come here when it’s 80+% political shit and rage bait and virtue signaling. Hell, I’ve got 80% of the content here filtered out as it is, and I want to be here.
Find your nearest non-political hobby community and start posting things people actually want to see and maybe we might see some growth or people sticking around. My current hyperfixation/hobby is Meshtastic, so I’ve been pretty active there lately. If that’s not your thing, then there’s:
- !woodworking@lemmy.ca
- !leathercraft@lemmy.ca
- !artshare@lemmy.world
- !gardening@sh.itjust.works !Houseplants@lemmy.ca !houseplants@mander.xyz
- !baking@sh.itjust.works
- !sewingrepairing@sh.itjust.works or !sewing@lemmy.world
- !television@piefed.social
- !movies@piefed.social !movies@lemmy.ca !movies@lemmy.world
- !jigsaw_puzzles@lemmy.world
If you’re like me and not good at any of that, tell us about cleaning your gutters or doing your laundry over in !Dullsters@dullsters.net
The point is, we need more posts about what make us happy and less about what we’re angry at (which is pretty much goddamned everything).
I’m kinda bummed more people from Reddit didn’t come here after the exodus. But I guess it’s a Catch-22 thing cause that could’ve been all kinds of good or all kinds of bad so who knows so he’s starting off fresh and slow. It’s kind of the best way to go maybe
Lemmy wasn’t ready at that time, it’s much better now, but people won’t give it another chance. PieFed is better now anyways and still increasing the gap, but no one knows about it. We need another big exodus somehow, and we need to send them to PieFed over Lemmy.
I have no interest in PieFed, it’s Lemmy or I just go back to reading books. Heck maybe I should just do that anyways…Nah, who are we kidding ha!
well you can keep using Lemmy, I’m just talking about suggesting to unfamiliar people.
Lemmy and PieFed share content anyways so it doesn’t matter which you use, you’ll see posts/comments/votes/communities from both anyways
100% agree, I can just check once a day, skipping basically everything you mentioned + the non-memes in the meme comms and that’s it, no need to open the threadiverse again until the next day.
We also need artists and creative people on board, yes, even the ones who draw porn, but the threadiverse users seemed kind of hostile towards many things during the reddit exodus they decided it wasn’t a good place.
Wonder if they’d have a different experience now, since most instances have defederated hex, ml and grad, and those were the loudest when it came to brigade and complain about anything sexy.
There are barely any places that defederate from lemmy.ml, including PieFed.ca that you are on. Thankfully PieFed allows us to block all users from an instance, but new users will have to discover on their own that they even should do this, and until then will be exposed to all of their comments and posts.
we need more posts about what make us happy and less about what we’re angry at (which is pretty much goddamned everything).
Unfortunately the “political shit” and “ragebait” is important.
The Fediverse is what you make of it. If you subscribe to a bunch of communities posting political shit and ragebait, that’s what you’ll get. That’s not a problem with the threadiverse, that’s a problem with your curation. One that it sounds like you remedied, so I’m not sure why you feel the need to call it out as a problem.
Look at it from a new user’s perspective; someone who has not curated their feed or otherwise “made the fediverse what they want” yet. e.g. They land on Lemmy World or another big instance and their default sort is “active”. Doing that now in an incognito window, and half the front page is rage, same on the second, and the stuff that’s not are some random shitposts and Linux filling in.
Truth be told, looking at that, I probably wouldn’t want to sign up. Especially if I didn’t know that different instances have different cultures, etc.
Assuming they’re a normie (which we desperately fucking need here), I just don’t see that they’d want to stick around. Aside from trolls and spammers, the only people we seem to consistently attract here are the “Wah wah I was banned from Reddit” types and, while there’s certainly a sizable pool to draw from, I wouldn’t exactly consider them the pick of the litter for growing the fediverse.
The point of OPs post is that usage here is declining, and I am simply pointing out that I feel all the rage and politics is not particularly inviting.
Edit: And you know what? I’m just going to fucking say it. There’s too many armchair activists here who won’t let you enjoy a single moment without reminding you that something bad is happening somewhere in the world and that you have some kind of moral obligation to be angry all the time about it. And if you’re not angry all the time then you’re somehow part of the problem.
We really need better onboarding for new users, maybe ask them about their interests to give them a default set of subscriptions (it would probably just be a tweaked version of the community search page). And default to the subscribed feed, not the All feed
Isn’t that how Piefed onboarding works?
Yes.
I’ve seen so many discussions like this about what needs to be done. So I did those things.
Very few noticed and I quickly got tired of popping up and saying “oh yeah I fixed that” to everything. Besides it makes me look like a smug asshole.
You should be a proud smug asshole (endearing) for fixing the missing capability of Lemmy poisoned the well.
I wouldn’t have stuck being in the threadiverse if it wasn’t for piefed. It would just be a failed third attempt to join Lemmy since the reddit APIpocalypse.
Same. I almost left Lemmy, until PieFed allowed another option.
I had the idea to revive dead c/ by reposting from reddit. It’s controversial to use a bot
i think if you copy posts/images manually it’s better because it shows that there’s a human actually wanting that community active, so other people can see that and engage as well. if a bot does it, it’s just a “flood” for no reason.
Also you can control the pacing better. A bot will nuke the comments/posts ratio into the ground and that turns everyone away when all they see are a ton of 0 comment posts
Here’s the thing imo. Bots used well can be really useful. The most attractive part about Reddit/Lemmy though is the comments. Seeing what people have to say about stuff is quite nice.
BUT. I can see how bots can be super helpful to subscribe to content where community interaction isn’t that important (like art posted by artists on Instagram, Twitter and so on). The main attraction is the art itself. Not the comments.
This way, I can see what my favorite instagram artists are up to without selling my soul to zuck.
Grow organically or die
That’s a very capitalist take. Remember how good things used to be? That’s how good the Fediverse is now. We don’t want it to grow or die. If it grows, great. If it doesn’t, great. Quality over quantity, imo.
the fediverse is very low quality unless you’re a furry linux-using anarchist/communist
for those of us who live in a broader reality with more ‘normie’ beliefs and lifestyles, it’s weak. it needs less weirdos who go around projecting their persecution complex everywhere
Be the change you want to see. You want the right kind of content to magically come to you, how do you think this content exists in the first place
