Only if you ignore all the stuff people consume. If a corporation pollutes and you buy their stuff, you’re on the hook for that pollution. We all are. We should be buying stuff that doesn’t pollute, and finding ways to save energy, water, and packaging.
Ok, that’s an excellent sentiment, but utterly worthless in the real world. People will buy what is available and what is cheap. A handful of people choosing to be conscious with what they purchase is a drop in the bucket compared to what the masses will do.
I get it. Convincing the people to not buy stuff that pollutes should be the easy route, but it’s not. And unfortunately we don’t live in the world of “it should be this way”, we live in reality. And in reality, the only real way to stop pollution heavy products from being sold is to go after the companies making them directly. Boycotts alone will not work because, again, as long as the products are available and cheap, people will buy them; morals be damned.
Ye, but you gotta look at it at scale.
BP can crash ansingle tanker and pollute for the ewuivalent of 10 generations of your family (all branches).
This type of scale of pollution needs to be addressed by governments via policies and their enforcement.
Totally agree on that. But I will also carry out my shopping in a cloth bag i brought into tue store instead of plastic at the till.
The more things are unwanted, the less oil derivatives that get made, which reduces profits. Not enough to dissaude big oil, but better than funding them and spin off industries
Yeah, we have cotton and what appears to be felt, but I presume it is an artificial felt. But they are strong and won’t make it to the landfill for decades
Unfortunately, convincing corporations to not pollute isn’t any easier. Using the tools of government to regulate them even harder still. It all comes down to people and what they want. Try to circumvent them and they’ll fight back.
Just look at what’s happening right now. Trump is rolling back tons of environmental and agricultural (anti- animal cruelty) regulations all the time. What activists had counted as previous wins are now going away.
Government reforms are still more effective than anything else we’ve tried. By focusing on individual reform, you’re playing right into the hands of the 1%. There’s even a book about it!
You can’t enact government reforms without winning an election, and to do that you need to convince individual voters. But then if you enact your reforms without a strong mandate, those reforms will be gone next election.
Anyway, that book is about nudge theory which is NOT what I’m arguing for. I already knew that bit of pop psychology was BS years ago.
Yeah, copy the big corporate agenda: blame the consumers. Shift the blame onto them, so you won’t be held accountable for producing most pollution. Consumer pollution is just a tiny fraction compared to corporate and government pollution.
Says the guy blaming the consumers. Isn’t that a bit hypocritical?
So what do you propose? Not blaming anyone and just continue without solving the issue?
I believe we need to put the blame on the big pollutors and create policies reducing the amount of pollution. Like reducing lifestock, make devices repairable and stop companies from reducing the product life span to just over warrenty periods. Stop building AI data centers, make them pay tax which can be used for climate improving projects and highly restrict them from freely polluting ground water, among other things (I prefer them to close completely, but I’m afraid that’s too much to ask for). There are so many ways to reduce pollution by focusing on the products instead of the consumers. The consumer has no say in whether their new washing machine only lives for 2 years and 2 months instead of 20 years, like they used to. Or whether their device is made with a replaceable battery, like they were before.
Waste and pollution starts with the companies forcing the consumers to consume more.
You talk about energy, water and packaging. Guess who uses most?
Maybe, if you’re only talking about individual people, but the big polluters are corporations, not people. That’s where the focus should be.
Stopping overproduction is what we should focus on.
Only if you ignore all the stuff people consume. If a corporation pollutes and you buy their stuff, you’re on the hook for that pollution. We all are. We should be buying stuff that doesn’t pollute, and finding ways to save energy, water, and packaging.
Ok, that’s an excellent sentiment, but utterly worthless in the real world. People will buy what is available and what is cheap. A handful of people choosing to be conscious with what they purchase is a drop in the bucket compared to what the masses will do.
I get it. Convincing the people to not buy stuff that pollutes should be the easy route, but it’s not. And unfortunately we don’t live in the world of “it should be this way”, we live in reality. And in reality, the only real way to stop pollution heavy products from being sold is to go after the companies making them directly. Boycotts alone will not work because, again, as long as the products are available and cheap, people will buy them; morals be damned.
Not always. I’ve always tried to buy what is better for the planet, even if that costs a bit more. Or will repair stuff instead of toss and buy.
There are dozens of us 😀
Ye, but you gotta look at it at scale. BP can crash ansingle tanker and pollute for the ewuivalent of 10 generations of your family (all branches). This type of scale of pollution needs to be addressed by governments via policies and their enforcement.
Totally agree on that. But I will also carry out my shopping in a cloth bag i brought into tue store instead of plastic at the till.
The more things are unwanted, the less oil derivatives that get made, which reduces profits. Not enough to dissaude big oil, but better than funding them and spin off industries
In a (sadly) hilarious twist of fate, the vast majority of the cloth shopping bags still use petroleum products like polyester or nylon.
Yeah, we have cotton and what appears to be felt, but I presume it is an artificial felt. But they are strong and won’t make it to the landfill for decades
That’s good. Some of the “reusable” bags I see for sale are practically disposable. It’s ridiculous.
Unfortunately, convincing corporations to not pollute isn’t any easier. Using the tools of government to regulate them even harder still. It all comes down to people and what they want. Try to circumvent them and they’ll fight back.
Just look at what’s happening right now. Trump is rolling back tons of environmental and agricultural (anti- animal cruelty) regulations all the time. What activists had counted as previous wins are now going away.
Oh bullshit. Governance can absolutely compel industry to reform.
And political movements can undo government reforms, as we’re seeing right now.
Government reforms are still more effective than anything else we’ve tried. By focusing on individual reform, you’re playing right into the hands of the 1%. There’s even a book about it!
You can’t enact government reforms without winning an election, and to do that you need to convince individual voters. But then if you enact your reforms without a strong mandate, those reforms will be gone next election.
Anyway, that book is about nudge theory which is NOT what I’m arguing for. I already knew that bit of pop psychology was BS years ago.
Yeah, copy the big corporate agenda: blame the consumers. Shift the blame onto them, so you won’t be held accountable for producing most pollution. Consumer pollution is just a tiny fraction compared to corporate and government pollution.
I don’t give a shit about assigning blame. There’s too much of that crap around here. It’s completely unproductive.
Says the guy blaming the consumers. Isn’t that a bit hypocritical?
So what do you propose? Not blaming anyone and just continue without solving the issue?
I believe we need to put the blame on the big pollutors and create policies reducing the amount of pollution. Like reducing lifestock, make devices repairable and stop companies from reducing the product life span to just over warrenty periods. Stop building AI data centers, make them pay tax which can be used for climate improving projects and highly restrict them from freely polluting ground water, among other things (I prefer them to close completely, but I’m afraid that’s too much to ask for). There are so many ways to reduce pollution by focusing on the products instead of the consumers. The consumer has no say in whether their new washing machine only lives for 2 years and 2 months instead of 20 years, like they used to. Or whether their device is made with a replaceable battery, like they were before.
Waste and pollution starts with the companies forcing the consumers to consume more.
You talk about energy, water and packaging. Guess who uses most?