The vast majority of Israelis say they are not troubled by reports of famine and suffering in Gaza, a new poll released by the Israel Democracy Institute shows.
The survey shows that 79 percent of Jews in Israel were not troubled, or troubled at all, whereas 86 percent of “Arab” respondents were somewhat or very troubled by the reports about the war on Gaza.
The survey was conducted between 27-31 July.
Sounds like 4/5 of Israeli are accessories to war crimes charges.
When I went to Israel last time I was genuinely surprised how many zealots there are. Most Israelis you meet outside of the country are just normal people but Israel itself is still full of mentally deranged. Religion is a hell of a drug.
If you really mean Israelis outside of Israel and not just Jewish people, that’s probably just code shifting. They know their opinions aren’t acceptable outside their bubble, so they keep quiet. It’s the same way a white supremacist will talk differently if they think any random white guy shares their views vs when an imposing minority is in the room.
I think it’s a little different. The Israelis who actually live or travel outside of Israel tend to usually be the educated, open minded ones. They’re usually the ones who want a two state solution and oppose wars. The whackos tend to stay in Israel. Not all Israelis are whackos, but all the Israeli whackos stay in Israel. It’s kind of like how the Americans who travel or live abroad tend to be liberal, but the MAGA types never even leave the country.
So how come there are tons of Israeli groups abroad from Israel who push zionist propaganda?
They need to renounce their bullshit faith or be ready to take in the backlash. It’s all made up (all religions), anyway, and if one can’t see that they really don’t deserve to procreate on this earth
I mean some do and some don’t. It’s the same as any other nationality. Israelis aren’t a monolith.
87% of israelis want every non jewish person expelled from the state of Israel. Thats a monolith.
It isn’t by definition…
They’ve been conditioned over the decades to consider them to be subhuman. I’m not saying that they are innocent, just that this is what they believe. Their propaganda is so effective that they no longer feel remorse for killing them as they see them as savages or monsters. In fact, they see themselves as the heroes of the story. And with every western country backing them up and giving them more weapons, what else would they think?
Middle East Eye is a notorious propaganda outlet, especially on this conflict. I would take anything they say with a grain of salt, including their interpretations of polls and surveys. I personally recommend everybody here to actually look at the original source and the same information referenced directly from there. The survey cited in this article is pretty extensive, and I think it’s worth taking a look at:
Sir, this is Lemmy. Get your information hygiene out of there!
…Seriously though, subtle rewording makes a huge difference:
The majority of Jewish respondents think that, given the circumstances of the fighting in Gaza, Israel is making efforts to avoid causing suffering to the Palestinian population there. The majority of Arab respondents think that even with the restrictions imposed by the fighting, Israel could have done more to reduce this suffering. Among Jews, only on the Left is there a majority who think that Israel is not making the necessary efforts to reduce suffering.
On a personal level, the majority in the Center and on the Right (Jewish respondents) say that they are not troubled by the reports of famine and suffering among the Palestinian population in Gaza. On the Left, the majority reported that they are personally troubled by these reports.
The majority of the Jewish public believes the IDF’s reporting on the extent of Palestinian civilian casualties in Gaza
In other words, Jewish respondents believe Israel is making efforts to avoid suffering, not that they approve of the suffering, and the national mood is very low.
Propaganda works.
So do clickbait tabloid headlines.
Sorry bud, the original source doesn’t make Israelis look better.
Israelis think that because they believe the IDF. You literally just read the first paragraph and are acting like the responsible one doing real research.
because they believe the IDF.
Exactly.
They believe what they’re told. But the headline makes it seem like they’re cheering on starvation in front of their eyes.
Complaining about propaganda then post yourself s propagands source. You so weird
It’s the primary source of this post… Lemmy’s media literacy is nonexistent
idi.org.il is an israeli site. No thanks pal.
It’s the primary source of this post dingus. You’re consuming it either way. If you find it preferable to digest the info through a notoriously narrative driven outlet as a middle man, then that’s your problem
middleeasteye is the primary source of this post. And if you are going to call me names I’ll flag that and have your comments removed.
Israel is full of religious fanatics who would happily kill everyone on this planet. Have you heard of Operation Samson?
Don’t confuse a fascist regime for the population it is presiding over.
Netanyahu’s fascist regime was democratically elected. Just like Nazis in Germany came to power through the democratic system.
It’s the Samson option, they’ve never done it. And MAD has been policy for any number of nations.
Is Israel deep into an ethnic conflict spiral, and fairly devoid of empathy for the other side? Yes. Is it all religious fanatics? No, that’s a minority. Secular Zionism is a thing too.
Netanyahu was democratically elected.
The Samson option is far worse than mutually assured destruction. Instead of retaliatory strikes against the sole country which launches nukes first, Isreal plans to nuke major cities all around the globe if they are ever nuked. They have already used this threat to coerce other countries into supporting them.
In the 1973 Yom Kippur War, Arab forces were overwhelming Israeli forces and Prime Minister Golda Meir authorized a nuclear alert and ordered 13 atomic bombs be readied for use by missiles and aircraft. The Israeli Ambassador informed President Nixon that “very serious conclusions” may occur if the United States did not airlift supplies. Nixon complied. This is seen by some commentators on the subject as the first threat of the use of the Samson Option.
And Palestine and Iran isn’t?
Not to the same scale. Israel wrote the book on religious lunacy.
I don’t see Israel declaring that they will destroy Iran or Gaza and genocide every non Jew they can get their hands on.
Israel just launched terrorist attacks on Iran, and has killed a huge part of Gazan population.
Look at actions, not words.
OH NO! Israel launched an attack on a nation that vowed to destroy it and was trying to build a nuke to wipe them out!
GOOD. The Iranian government needs to collapse. I find it weird how many people who supposedly support LGBT+ also support a nation that hangs them.
Israel is a country of rabid religious fanatics bent on the murder of all non-believers. They are the enemy of humanity and all decent folk.
So you support hamas then?
Funny, I’m not bothered by Israeli death and suffering either. 🤷
This is the type of unhinged take that shouldn’t be welcomed in discourse. The reason why people are critical of Israel or Russia or Saudi Arabia or Iran or whatever is because they’re not bothered enough by the death and suffering. The whole point is to get them to deradicalize as a society so they won’t dehumanize other people. We went to bring them to the level everybody else is at, radicalizing ourselves to dehumanize them, that’s just making the problem worse.
ok gorilladrums, so tell us that you believe in universal human rights.
Clearly you don’t believe in them
I strongly believe in them. Your turn. Say it.
Say that Palestinians have rights because they are human beings.
But you’re literally arguing against them in this very thread
And there it is, you wont say it.
Remember when the US beat the Nazis? This is exactly like that, but instead imagine we sent the Nazis billions of dollars and weapons to enable them.
America world police 2025 rather would rather be worrying about what’s happening across the planet than fixing their own dumpster fire.
Fix your shit and get in the back of the line, you Americans only cheapen the cause
banned from the site entirely would be better.
They csn fix it but using the billions they give to israel and usr it to help americans
That would have meant voting for the black woman, and Americans won’t do that
Sick, fascist country. They need to be occupied, reconstructed, and de-nazified.
Honestly, even just being allowed to sink or swim on their own would have prevented this. They’ve grown brutal and callous because the US has shielded them from any consequences of that.
20 years of being attacked by Hamas did that. Before Israel became anyone’s ally, they won multiple wars against multiple Islamic nations at the same time. Every single one of those wars would have ended in a second Holocaust if the Muslims had won.
The second holocaust is happening right now and it’s all thanks to the terrorists who founded israel, violently removing Palestinians from their homes, and setting the blueprint for the entire existence of the cancer known as israel. Palestine is only the beginning in the israelis’ campaign of lebensraum, they have a whole plan of “greater israel” that they’re looking forward to implementing.
I kind of doubt that. It wouldn’t have been great, though, and I doubt they’d be above pushing everyone back into the diaspora.
It also was guys like Nasser being dumb, not Israel being blessed by god or whatever your pet theory is.
Edit: If what you’re saying is that Israel could defend itself, you’re right. It’d just have to respect the other nations around and in it, the way they actually did sometimes in the earlier days.
20 years of being attacked by Hamas did that.
Uh-huh. And Israel was being super nice and reasonable to Palestine this whole time, right?
“History begins the last time the other feuding party did something”
Every nation that invaded Israel did so with the express intent to wipe out the Jews. There’s no other reason for them to invade land that wasn’t theirs to begin with, EXCEPT to exterminate the Jews who had moved in.
invade land that wasn’t theirs to begin with, EXCEPT to exterminate the Jews who had moved in.
You have a funny, probably very personally convenient definition of “theirs”. If it was a Jewish place already, how did they move in?
Considering that the land of Israel was historically Jewish until the Romans forced them off the land, it belongs to the Jews because it was theirs.
Unless we have a limit on how far back we’re willing to look when it comes to “It was our land, it was stolen from us!”
Right, so what about the Babylonian Empire, or the bronze age Egyptian expansion into pre-Jewish Canaan? Shouldn’t it all go to Iraq or Egypt by that standard? Except, there were actually countless migrations before that too…
Also, genetically, Palestinians would have more second-temple Jew in them than an Ashkenazi Jew like me.
imagine being in school and theres a boy thats mean to you, we can call him billy Palestine.
one day Billy Palestine pushes past you at recess and tou fall over and scrape your knee. Billy Palestine probably shouldnt have done that. It was mean.
But you dont push Billy back, no. The nect day at recess you chop his dick and balls off with a rusty mest cleaver and stuff them in his fucking mouth and assrape the shit out of him in fill view of the school before finally cutting off his head and leaving him right there on the playground.
Imagine defending this.
Imagine being in school and a little shitstain named Billy Hamas Palestine keeps throwing rocks at your family. Big rocks. Occasionally, those rocks hit you or a relative and your cousin has already suffered brain damage from it.
You tell the teacher and the teacher tells you to back off and leave Billy Hamas Palestine alone and blames you for his aggression.
After several years of this shitstain throwing rocks at you and your family, you throw a rock back. You land in the principal’s office with him asking why you hate Billy Hamas Palestine.
One day he pulls out a slingshot and kills several of your siblings, your dog, and then celebrates. You snap and grab your own slingshot and pelt him in a hail of rocks because you are FUCKING SICK OF HIM ALWAYS ATTACKING YOU AND YOUR FAMILY. Then the teachers and principal all come rushing out, telling you to stop because you’ll hurt him. They don’t CARE that he’s already killed your dog and siblings.
Eventually you have to say, “To hell with it. I’m taking you down so you won’t be ABLE to harm my family anymore. I’m sick of the teachers and principal enabling your behavior!”
This is where Israel is now. The only way Israel finds peace and avoids being genocided is to make sure those who have declared Israel to be their enemy isn’t capable to launching attacks. The majority of Palestinians supported Hamas and the October 7th attack. They’ve made their bed. Now they can sleep in it.
Israel has made many concessions for peace, even doing so far as giving up land they took in defensive war and every time they did, Hamas, Hebollah,etc declare it a victory and ramp up their attacks.
If Israel wants to take Gaza over entirely, good on em. At least then they can keep Hamas from coming back.
And look at the death numbers. Maybe just maybe uf Israel wasn’t killing Palestinians they wouldn’t grow up hating Israel. I know its hard but it’s in their book I think an eye for an eye.
The death numbers tell a tale of a people who attacked a foe that they had absolutely no chance of beating.
Hamas thought that they could kill Jews, take hostages, then hide behind civilians and cry to the world to stop Israel from retaliating. Israel usually does, but this time, Israel has decided that playing nice with Hamas only gets people killed.
They celebrated as Hamas paraded around corpses and hostages. That celebratory cheer became wails of despair when Israel decided that enough was enough.
Much like a violent teen punk who loves to punch people he thinks won’t fight back on camera, then acts tough, their tune changed real fast when the guy Hamas sucker punched decided to punch back and kept punching.
If Palestinians weren’t constantly attacking Israel, there wouldn’t be an issue. Plenty of Palestinians lived and live in Israel peacefully. You can’t say the opposite.
I imagine a lot of the world hates israel now. Not just Palestinians. Israelis thrive on that, so they can have a nice strong victim complex for the next thousand years.
“Why oh why does everyone hate us!! Its because they are racist antisemites! bohooohoo”
Hatred of Jews goes back centuries. It’s almost a worldwide pastime at this point. The difference is a lot of the antisemites have had to stop being openly hateful towards Jews because of shifting social norms, so they latch onto Israel as a way to vent their hatred in a politically correct manner.
I didnt say jews, I said israelis. Careful with this. Antisemitism gets you banned on lemmy.
Although for whatever reason, anti arab sentiment or support for war crimes doesnt. Huge double standard.
If Israel was run by Muslims, no one would care if they were turning Gaza into a heap of rubble. Just look at how concerned they are about the Druze.
crickets
Exactly.
Oh, just 20 years?? Try since ethnic cleansing since 1948
Agreed, the Muslims have been trying to Genocide the Jews since Israel was founded.
Israel was founded by means of genocide
It was not, but thanks for playing. The Israelis lacked the weapons and manpower to genocide anyone and were surrounded on all sides by Islamic theocracies that would love nothing more than to genocide the largest group of Jews the world had seen since the Romans expelled them from their land.
Russia said the same exact thing about Ukraine… maybe this is not a wise option in general.
And which genocide was Ukraine committing?
Russia accused them of a genocide in Donbass.
The point is that trying to rebuild countries is usually a very bad idea, especially by force. Germany and Japan after WWII are very rare examples in history.
Congratulations to israel for making the very rare examples list then.
What the brainless users here are suggesting is going to turn Israel into Afghanistan or Iraq, not into Japan or Germany. It’s been proven that country building just leads countries to become more extreme, and that shouldn’t be the goal.
Why would any of us care about any positive future for the israeli state? read the room, bud.
Ah I get now, you’re pro genocide and ethnic cleansing, just not when it conflicts with your ideological narratives. How convenient that you lack the very principles you harp on and on about.
Also make sure to stalk my profile and write a few hundred more comments. That will surely make you less of a troll
You’re sounding mighty Putinish there.
yeah a nation of mostly Zionists would think that, wouldn’t they?
A nation of mostly fascists. Zionism is about the creation of a religious nationalist ethnostate through genocide.
It’s pure unbridled fascism, and Israelis have been indoctrinated to believe it’s okay when they do it since birth, as has a significant proportion of the Jewish diaspora. That’s why the genocide continues, and why Israel is the most dangerous threat to Jewish people since Nazism.
Not quite. Zionism is about creating a secular nationalist ethnostate through genocide, with religious dressing simply as a way to get more religious Jews on board. It’s no coincidence that early Zionist leaders were all unapologetically atheist.
That’s not true. Zionism originates from the Jewish scriptures. Basically, Judaism talks about how Jews were promised by God, via the scriptures and the old prophets, the land of Israel as a homeland. It is the duty of Jews to resettle the holy land and establish a theological society that is based on the divine laws and systems laid out in the Torah. By doing so, Jews would achieve salvation for themselves, and eventually for the rest of the world. This global salvation will be marked by global harmony and the coming of the messiah who will guide the world in the path of God.
Virtually all Jews agree that Israel is their homeland and that they will eventually reclaim the holy land and settle it in a way that would bring salvation as they await the coming of the Messiah. Traditionally Zionism was seen as something that is out of human control and is entirely up to God’s will. Essentially Jews will go back to Israel when God wills it and people have no say in the matter, any attempt by humans to accelerate the salvation is seen as blasphemous as it’s an act of rebellion against God’s will.
That’s when modern Zionism split. Modern Zionists believe that political and secular Zionism is a tool given by God to enact his divine plan and to initiate the return of Jews back the land of Israel. Therefore following this type of Zionism is actually following God’s will and it’s the duty of religious Jews to pursue it.
Obviously, there’s a great deal of debate among Jews about which theological branch is correct, but either way, the origins of Zionism aren’t purely secular or nationalist.
Modern Zionists believe that political and secular Zionism is a tool given by God to enact his divine plan and to initiate the return of Jews back the land of Israel.
Early modern Zionists (including Herzl himself) overwhelmingly didn’t believe in God in the first place.
Obviously, there’s a great deal of debate among Jews about which theological branch is correct, but either way, the origins of Zionism aren’t purely secular or nationalist.
You should look up Theodor Herzl. Early Zionists were straight up voting on whether they’d build their Jewish state in Palestine or Uganda, and the vote was pretty narrow if I’m not mistaken. The rationale for choosing Palestine was that it’d be easier to get religious Jews (which the guys who were thinking up this stuff were absolutely not) on board. Like, do you think Ben Gurion or Golda Mier were having theological debates?
But this is separate from what I’m talking about. I’m specifically talking about the origins of the idea itself. It’s undeniably based in Jewish religious scriptures. That’s where the idea comes from even if modern Zionism evolved to be something different.
Okay this is going nowhere, so define Zionism. What do you think Zionism is?
I’m not debating what Zionism is. You made a false claim about the origins of Zionism and I corrected. That’s all there is to it
Russia gave them a completely autonomous oblast to settle and build years before that vote, but they didnt like the area. Same lattitude as northern japan. No war needed. No people to displace. self rule written into the constitution of Russia. Yiddish offiical language. But they didnt like the area so they left it empty. They could go there now and have an israel 2 if they wanted. They dont want that area because its not their biblical favorite area. All this genocidal behavior was a choice they made. They already had a “homeland”.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_Autonomous_Oblast
“If I knew that it was possible to save all the children of Germany by transporting them to England, and only half by transferring them to the Land of Israel, I would choose the latter, for before us lies not only the numbers of these children but the historical reckoning of the people of Israel.” Ben-Gurion (Quoted on pp 855-56 in Shabtai Teveth’s “Ben-Gurion”).
I think there’s been a pretty significant divergence from the original Zionist leaders to modern day Zionism. The seeds were there, obviously, but things have deteriorated even further in the past few decades.
What meaningful divergence is there? Since the 19th century, Zionists such as Herzl were discussing means to ethnically cleanse the local populace via economic domination.
In practice, Zionists starting coming in droves armed, aiding the British in committing atrocities and suppressing Palestinian dissent and resistance. Then during the Nakba, they would straight up rape, murder, and rob the Palestinians.
Is the divergence in Zionism similar to that of Nazism, where the initial good peacenik Nazis simply wanted to peacefully relocate Europe’s Jewish population to madagascar? Are we going to act like the very pursuit of an ethnostate is not problematic in and of itself?
To be charitable I think our fellow poster meant that Zionists went from at least some modesty to a full embrace of revisionist Zionism. To further the Nazi analogy, it would be like going from Italian fascism to Nazism.
You’re probably right. I don’t think they meant any ill. If anything, I made my words a bit harsh because I was fed a similar myth growing up. Sometimes you need a new direct and visceral perspective to see something in a new light. We need to be as ruthless towards Zionism on an ideological basis as we are towards Nazism.
Source on genocide being included in Zionism theory?
oh I see, zionists were going to take the land peacefully, You are claiming that was the plan? Shall I show you quotes from zionists about how they thought about that?
Not sure about peacefully, ethnic cleansing is a crime in any case, but it’s a notch down genocide. That’s why I was curious if the early theoricians mentioned something akin to it or not. So far, it seems they didn’t.
Technically it’s not explicitly about genocide, but here’s the big guy on the topic:
As to al-Khalidi concerns about the non-Jewish majority population of Palestine, Herzl replied rhetorically: “who would think of sending them away?”
- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theodor_Herzl
Again, this isn’t technically a genocidal idea in and of its own (though still crime against humanity stuff), but implementing it would inevitably wade pretty deep into genocide territory, as seen in the Nakba.
This seems to be a weak source.
I have found a detailed article that claims that while the historical Zionism did mention relocating non-Jewish people, killing them was only a fringe opinion among ultra-nationalist religious people. But this opinion has been spreading with every major conflict until those extremists got power in the current government and was further accelerated by the October 7 attack. https://theconversation.com/in-israel-calls-for-genocide-have-migrated-from-the-margins-to-the-mainstream-250010As I said, Herzl wasn’t explicitly calling for total extermination here, but what he was calling for could only happen via genocide. This is why the Nakba included so many bloody massacres (which, yes, those constitute a genocide).
People seem to forget that when it came to Nazi rhetoric, the Nazis initially claimed they just wanted to “move the Jews”.
There’s a reason why the concentration extermination camps were called “The Final Solution” and not “First Attempt at creating an Aryan haven!”
For anyone curious, here’s a website where you get to guess whether a quote is from a Nazi or Zionist: https://zionism.wtf/#zionist-or-nazi
75%+ of Gazans approved of the October 7th attack and want to see Israel wiped out.
I can imagine Israelis would lack sympathy for a people who want to see them dead.
They want occupation to end
There is no occupation. Israel is a sovereign nation that won its right to exist in several defensive wars.
You surely love to embarass yourself. So the UN is lying and human right orgs are lying? Where did you get the dumb idea that land sized in war become the winner land? It doesn’t when the winner take land it becomes occupied land and the occupied had the right to take it back
Would this be the same UN that puts KNOWN human rights abusers on the human rights council? The same UN that is dead silent on various commonly known abuses of human rights around the world? THAT UN? Are you SURE you want to cite THEM?
