Millions of us are protesting and direct action groups are gaining more support and being more active. We’re slow to the draw yes, and this type of movement should have happened much earlier, but it’s inaccurate to say none of us are doing anything
i think the point hes getting at mainly is that none of the protesting groups are taking up firearms and removing the potus by force along with his cronies. you are not militant enough compared to what is written in your constitution for this exact scenerio.
protesting where the police allow you to is “controlled opposition” and its part of the allowed illusion of potential change. its what allows viewers at home who may agree with the movement, to feel hopeful, and like they dont have to do anything because someone else is already doing something. resolving things democratically will only take you so far with a head of state and entrenched system of control that not only doesnt follow the rules of democracy, but is actively trying to dismantle it.
protest as much as you wish, but if theres no bite after your bark, it rings hollow.
source? occupy wallstreet. where they poured champaign on protestors from high rises and skyscrapers, laughing, and taking pictures as they continued to rob everyone below. nothing changed. not really. if anything it got worse.
Every protest is a sea of organization. Thousands and thousands of people convening in a public space for a cause compels people to think about those next steps. It’s a process of breaking inertia. But yes, these always require a politival mechanism: support for a bill, a race, a party, etc or they will get co-opted by the ruling class.
That’s what happened with Occupy Wall Street, yes, though it still resulted in a major wave of political organization. The movement being ignored resulted in a major wave of disenfranchised people who turned to fascism thinking it would be a viable alternative. But at the same time it helped prime people to actually give Bernie a chance in 2016.
Taking up arms at this point would be absurdly foolish. They’d just deploy actual militant forces to stop you and you’d essentially kill any progressive movement for a couple decades, because they’d be associated with violence and extremism
I don’t think that’s how that works. Historically, peace rarely gets results. Do you think the end of the holocaust came about through peaceful protest? French or American revolution? The hands off protest was marked 3rd largest in US history by Wikipedia and nothing has changed. Black lives matter protests were arguably ineffective considering we elected Trump again. We see time and time again that armed conservatives and police forces freely obtain what they want so much to the point that their most desperate members felt comfortable enough to storm the Capitol and they got pardoned. I think the mindset to advocate for peace isn’t one that aligns with results. We see the results. I don’t like violence, but I know they’d love to inflict violence against me.
I view both peaceful and violent protest to be tools meant to work together. The hammer of violence and the anvil of peace, shaping the politics of yore into something more useful.
Problem is, the media and education in America has solely emphasized peaceful movements, while ignoring or downplaying the value of violence. This is a deliberate effort made by evil oligarchs and naive peaceniks, whose reasons happen to align with the result.
the US itself was a progressive movement built on violence. thats why you have the right to vote, and you dont hail the king. the constitution itself was written by extreme, violent, progressives (well, progressive for their time) also, people rally around (arguably) justified, righteous violence in the US, just look at luigi mangione for example.
also laying down and taking it will kill progressive movements for not decades, but centuries. look at basically all of history. for a long time (millenia) people of wealth were thought to be annointed by god himself. it wasnt until people starved in the face of their greed that violence became the only answer they understood. and its what is largely responsible for the birth of democracy and the shrinking monarchies over time. something trump/musk and co are seemingly trying to reverse. while casting the illusion that you “taking the high road” is somehow morally superior, rather than literally fighting for the rights of your friends, families, and neighbours. dooming them in the process to the whims of a new american fascist monarch.
people have died for your rights, its a shame the american peoples limit for retribution has been watered down to holding a clever quip on a piece of cardboard, compared to the actions that built your country and gave you your rights in the first place.
they want you to remain impotent, meak, and mild. they want you to feel hopeless. powerless. and they want you to think bumper stickers, signs, flags, and liking social media posts are silver bullets in the heart of fascism.
they are not. its just a small piece of rebellion against the forces of fascism. again, bark with no bite means nothing to those who have demonstrated they are willing to do both of those things.
“freedom isnt free, no, theres a hefty fuckin fee. and if you dont pitch in your buck o’ five, who will?” - Trey Parker.
This is a matter of timing not principle. It is not the right time yet. Short of successful extremely targeted attacks ala Mangione, you will be branded a terrorist and rejected and hurt everyone you tried to help.
and bumper stickers and rallies absolutely are critical in building the actual movement in the first place. Even if you do take up arms or whatever who are you going to do it with? Or is the plan to just go out on the street and start shooting cops?
please re read my last comment. i feel like you didnt understand it based on what you wrote. try to remove emotion from how you process my words.
targeted action is key to success. mindless violence towards innocents is pointless. and a shameful waste of life.
i wont write you a play by play, but imagine how you would logically carry out a militant plan yourself, and go from there.
(this is a thought excersize, purely hypothetical, and shouldnt be taken seriously by anyone reading this. there is no organized efforts here, same goes for all previous comments on this subject)
I read it as an ideological speech to take more direct action, something you feel has been lost in today’s political climate relative to history, in the context of my previous comment disagreeing with your parent comment literally saying to “take up firearms” and not resolve things democratically. I don’t know what else you’re trying to say.
What are direct action groups are doing? I’ve only heard of protests, which have frankly zero effect on the Trump regime. The idea that something will come out of these protests, that someone will escalate is fundamentally flawed; until you and people like you decide to escalate nothing will happen, and if you want to know what your average American thinks of escalation go out on April 19th and ask people around you what they think about participating in a general strike within the year. Like ask 30 people or something, record the answers and see what you’ll get. The situation won’t change until the people of America change it with their own hands; no inevitable march of history is coming to save you.
Millions of us are protesting and direct action groups are gaining more support and being more active. We’re slow to the draw yes, and this type of movement should have happened much earlier, but it’s inaccurate to say none of us are doing anything
Edit to add: https://lemmy.world/post/28297299
i think the point hes getting at mainly is that none of the protesting groups are taking up firearms and removing the potus by force along with his cronies. you are not militant enough compared to what is written in your constitution for this exact scenerio.
protesting where the police allow you to is “controlled opposition” and its part of the allowed illusion of potential change. its what allows viewers at home who may agree with the movement, to feel hopeful, and like they dont have to do anything because someone else is already doing something. resolving things democratically will only take you so far with a head of state and entrenched system of control that not only doesnt follow the rules of democracy, but is actively trying to dismantle it.
protest as much as you wish, but if theres no bite after your bark, it rings hollow.
source? occupy wallstreet. where they poured champaign on protestors from high rises and skyscrapers, laughing, and taking pictures as they continued to rob everyone below. nothing changed. not really. if anything it got worse.
Every protest is a sea of organization. Thousands and thousands of people convening in a public space for a cause compels people to think about those next steps. It’s a process of breaking inertia. But yes, these always require a politival mechanism: support for a bill, a race, a party, etc or they will get co-opted by the ruling class.
That’s what happened with Occupy Wall Street, yes, though it still resulted in a major wave of political organization. The movement being ignored resulted in a major wave of disenfranchised people who turned to fascism thinking it would be a viable alternative. But at the same time it helped prime people to actually give Bernie a chance in 2016.
Taking up arms at this point would be absurdly foolish. They’d just deploy actual militant forces to stop you and you’d essentially kill any progressive movement for a couple decades, because they’d be associated with violence and extremism
I don’t think that’s how that works. Historically, peace rarely gets results. Do you think the end of the holocaust came about through peaceful protest? French or American revolution? The hands off protest was marked 3rd largest in US history by Wikipedia and nothing has changed. Black lives matter protests were arguably ineffective considering we elected Trump again. We see time and time again that armed conservatives and police forces freely obtain what they want so much to the point that their most desperate members felt comfortable enough to storm the Capitol and they got pardoned. I think the mindset to advocate for peace isn’t one that aligns with results. We see the results. I don’t like violence, but I know they’d love to inflict violence against me.
History is a very biased sample. When peaceful efforts do work, they don’t make the news, it just becomes the mundane stuff you forget.
I view both peaceful and violent protest to be tools meant to work together. The hammer of violence and the anvil of peace, shaping the politics of yore into something more useful.
Problem is, the media and education in America has solely emphasized peaceful movements, while ignoring or downplaying the value of violence. This is a deliberate effort made by evil oligarchs and naive peaceniks, whose reasons happen to align with the result.
the US itself was a progressive movement built on violence. thats why you have the right to vote, and you dont hail the king. the constitution itself was written by extreme, violent, progressives (well, progressive for their time) also, people rally around (arguably) justified, righteous violence in the US, just look at luigi mangione for example.
also laying down and taking it will kill progressive movements for not decades, but centuries. look at basically all of history. for a long time (millenia) people of wealth were thought to be annointed by god himself. it wasnt until people starved in the face of their greed that violence became the only answer they understood. and its what is largely responsible for the birth of democracy and the shrinking monarchies over time. something trump/musk and co are seemingly trying to reverse. while casting the illusion that you “taking the high road” is somehow morally superior, rather than literally fighting for the rights of your friends, families, and neighbours. dooming them in the process to the whims of a new american fascist monarch.
people have died for your rights, its a shame the american peoples limit for retribution has been watered down to holding a clever quip on a piece of cardboard, compared to the actions that built your country and gave you your rights in the first place.
they want you to remain impotent, meak, and mild. they want you to feel hopeless. powerless. and they want you to think bumper stickers, signs, flags, and liking social media posts are silver bullets in the heart of fascism.
they are not. its just a small piece of rebellion against the forces of fascism. again, bark with no bite means nothing to those who have demonstrated they are willing to do both of those things.
“freedom isnt free, no, theres a hefty fuckin fee. and if you dont pitch in your buck o’ five, who will?” - Trey Parker.
This is a matter of timing not principle. It is not the right time yet. Short of successful extremely targeted attacks ala Mangione, you will be branded a terrorist and rejected and hurt everyone you tried to help.
and bumper stickers and rallies absolutely are critical in building the actual movement in the first place. Even if you do take up arms or whatever who are you going to do it with? Or is the plan to just go out on the street and start shooting cops?
please re read my last comment. i feel like you didnt understand it based on what you wrote. try to remove emotion from how you process my words.
targeted action is key to success. mindless violence towards innocents is pointless. and a shameful waste of life.
i wont write you a play by play, but imagine how you would logically carry out a militant plan yourself, and go from there.
(this is a thought excersize, purely hypothetical, and shouldnt be taken seriously by anyone reading this. there is no organized efforts here, same goes for all previous comments on this subject)
I read it as an ideological speech to take more direct action, something you feel has been lost in today’s political climate relative to history, in the context of my previous comment disagreeing with your parent comment literally saying to “take up firearms” and not resolve things democratically. I don’t know what else you’re trying to say.
a call to arms? me? haha, no idea what you’re talking about…
The revolution will not be televised…
What are direct action groups are doing? I’ve only heard of protests, which have frankly zero effect on the Trump regime. The idea that something will come out of these protests, that someone will escalate is fundamentally flawed; until you and people like you decide to escalate nothing will happen, and if you want to know what your average American thinks of escalation go out on April 19th and ask people around you what they think about participating in a general strike within the year. Like ask 30 people or something, record the answers and see what you’ll get. The situation won’t change until the people of America change it with their own hands; no inevitable march of history is coming to save you.