Summary
Social media influencers are fuelling a rise in misogyny and sexism in the UK’s classrooms, according to teachers.
More than 5,800 teachers were polled… and nearly three in five (59%) said they believe social media use has contributed to a deterioration in pupils’ behaviour.
One teacher said she’d had 10-year-old boys “refuse to speak to [her]…because [she is] a woman”. Another said “the Andrew Tate phenomena had a huge impact on how [pupils] interacted with females and males they did not see as ‘masculine’”.
“There is an urgent need for concerted action… to safeguard all children and young people from the dangerous influence of far-right populists and extremists.”
Stories like this are what I think of every time the topic of regulating social media comes up.
We know it’s programmed to create rage machines. We do, and then people act surprised when social media works as designed.
In my opinion the huge difference between this generation and all previous ones is that content is no longer vetted by anyone. It used to be that to put something in front of kids it had to approved by some sane adult. If a TV station marketed to children something that most parents would not approve they would face protests or maybe even legal action. On social media any asshole can post literally anything and millions of kids will consume it without any supervision.
That’s the whole point of screaming about “liberal” or “leftist” media for all this time even when most media outlets are owned by for profit orgs. They usually have to comply with laws. On social media you’ve been able to lie as much as you want without consequence or being called out. Corporations mostly use this to market to children and get them addicted to gambling.
You know you’re actually right on the money, and it’s a little startling that it never occurred to me before. Shit.
Yep, that’s why the only way to be a good parent nowadays is to not give your kids smart phones or computers of their own. There was a time when it was kinda ok for them to have those devices, but that time is permanently in the past.
Closeted queer kids with bigoted parents need online safe spaces.
Where are the parents, if my son pulled that shit I would put him a position where he MUST listen to and work for women until he realizes how ridiculous he is.
This is totally a diffusion of social media issue. Twenty years ago, the media that kids had available for consumption was age rated. We had agreed as a society that certain things should not be visible to children until they grow up. It was possible to do because it was centralized (TV, movies, radio, print) and it was accountable to regulatory bodies and the rest of society. If a TV channel showed something as shitty as Tate style propaganda, there was institutional pushback, there were letters to the editor, there was someone specific to be targeted for accountability.
With social media being dominated by US style “freedom of speech” algorithms and US style acceptance of the impossibility (or even undesirability) of regulation and with completely unaccountable megacorps running them while giving very minimal if non-existent attention to who is watching what, we have a complete lack of age rating. We have given up on the idea of protecting childhood it seems.
Coupled with every fucking other issue being brought up in this thread, from COVID, to economic issues, to cultural misogyny, there is a perfect storm…
Countries, especially influential ones like the UK, that are suffering from this BS should band together and fine the shit out of megacorps like Google for allowing this filth to fester and the harm it’s done so far, and also threaten to revoke their operational rights if they don’t agree to strict moderation going forward.
First. If the kid doesn’t want to talk to the teacher then put the kid into detention until they will. If the kid misses more then a certain number of days of class. Make them take the entire grade again. Fail them.
Second (and I’m not sure how we would do this) cut them off from the internet. There are books in the library for doing research.
These kids already have been left behind by someone and they filled the void with people telling them it wasn’t their fault.
And your solution is to leave them even more behind? That’s just compounding the problem.
The solution is guidance and therapy. What you’re describing is retaliation.
Second (and I’m not sure how we would do this) cut them off from the internet.
There are a whole bunch of ways to monitor, limit, and even cut off your kids internet usage. If you get your kid a cell phone or computer, you can install apps to monitor and limit what they watch and when. The fact that parents just let their kids freely use the internet with no supervision blows my mind.
I grew up in Dubai and most of my teachers were women. None of the boys ever gave any lip on account of their sex. If they did, the teacher wouldn’t need to discipline them… we would.
There was always a large number of stupid kids who were jerks in school, but it was always hidden behind a mentality of stern rebukes of fights and an occasional suspension. Now, all of those same types of moronic assholes have a digital distillated stream of garbage that fits with their natural tendancies, putting these idiots into hyperdrive.
Honestly, it’s probably better that the problem gets worse so that it unmasks the high amount of bullying and abuse that’s normally accepted in schools.
Worst of all, when bullies harass and attack and beat people over and over in school, on the rare occasion when a student defends themself, the defender often ends up charged because “cool” bullies get a free pass unless bones are broken or the victim dies, while uncool victims are castigated by schools for defending themselves. The unfortunate recent charging of the innocent Karmelo Anthony with murder for refusing to be bullied by some asshole jock is an excellent example of this.
Andrew Tate is not the problem, this problem has existed for a long time with school just letting it fester. Tate at least finally makes the problem noticeable. The problem has always been school administrators who allow this sort of stuff to happen.
Send them to a Catholic male-only school, which incidentally is also one of the most right-wing places I can imagine. Let’s see how long they remain up to their “masculine” standards.
Abuse isn’t the solution to miseducation.
I am just saying that they don’t know what they are asking for with this behavior: such places already exist and they are abusive to their own members.
Have you ever had a creepy guy who hangs around the school desperately trying to impress little kids? Yeah he’s the online version.
Or he’s your friend’s weird, 28 year old brother, whose room is only lit with black lights, and UV reactive posters, has no job, smokes weed all day, and trips all the time, who tells you Mayans invented cell phones.
Due these Andrew Tate fans happen to come from a country that devalues women?
I’ve seen them not wanting to work with women due to some religious fundamentalism.
I don’t think it is social media. It is much more simple: people can’t spend time with each other. Employers keep reducing the wages, while maintaining or increasing the amount of work their employees have to do. This means that workers can’t invest time into friends or family, which in turn deprives children of healthy role models.
Jackasses like Tate get to influence the children, because there is a void that has been left empty - Tate has enough wealth and time to fill in for society. Work culture is a ravenous beast, forever chasing workers. If you pause, you lose everything. So you might as well sacrifice the time you could spend with family, since you would lose them anyway if you shirk being a breadwinner.
Optimization for the sake of line going up, inevitably destroys everything that surrounds the pillar that society is forced to worship.
I would argue that those factors aren’t a direct cause, but the isolation leaves them vulnerable to things like this. The internet used to be wide open and your semi-random traversal of independent sites would still expose you to a diverse array of people and content.
The pursuit of profit led to massive, accessible, engagement driven social media platforms. Optimization for ad views meant segmenting demographics and serving them distilled content. The hyper specific content led to these demographics living in echo chambers based on their flavor of polarizing content.
The Tate-sphere is built around exploiting that isolation and selling bogus solutions. There’s no specific reason the algorithm funnels into it other than it’s catches a broad user base on a charged topic => $$$. The algorithm could just as easily push young men into fighting for socially beneficial causes, but anger is a strong emotion that gives the most money.
It’s not either or. It could be both. In rhis case, most of these reasons can be traced back to the perversion of capitalism.
I would also include the death of the “third place”. Because even if you work enough to survive, where do you spend your time outside of the home with other people in your community without spending money? Even worse options if you want kids allowed.
One of the only places I know of is the library. But I’d be very surprised by an 8-10 year old boy spending their time at the library.
Jackasses like Tate get to influence the children, because there is a void that has been left empty
I’d like to amend this to say that there is void that support “boys”. There’s a lot of encouragement for the development of girls into STEM, into sports, into everything else but there’s no encouragement for boys. Boys are left to fend for themselves and if they don’t get the right support and encouragement at home, they end up ripe for influencers like Tate.
A lot of them spend their free time in their bedrooms, gaming. Their only friends are online gamers that are in other parts of the world. They have no actual physical interaction.
I’ve even seen posts where young men in their 20s are finally making enough money that they can finally visit online friends that they’ve known for years, often describing them as “best friends.”
It’s interesting my friends kid is 13. A couple of years ago they were able to take a trip across country to visit their online friends that they spend all their time with in games. Those kids are all girls. This life style truly isn’t exclusive to one gender. The father works a 9-5 and the mother is a stay at home mom with some side hustles for extra cash. Their kid seems to be kind but who knows what she is really getting into online. This world is like a caricature of itself.
I’m glad that people can’t hide behind a face anymore. In the old times, and this still happens in some places, people will get away with abuse because they’re good at using their faces to manipulate people. Preachers, community leaders. They used body language to win people’s trust and gain positions of power to abuse people, especially children.
On the internet, people have to be more honest. Video chat is unpopular, so most people are only using words to communicate. Sometimes voice. You’re looking straight at someone’s soul with less distraction from the physical plane. It’s safer.
I wouldn’t trust a guy who I’ve only ever met in the flesh. Ugh, creepy.
Yall didn’t see this coming with the red pill derived slang that kids have been using? They’re obsessed with their value. It’s terrifying and capitalism loves it.
I’m clueless, what slang are we talking about here, I doubt I’d know it if I heard it.
I don’t know much more than you, but they said it right in the comment. “They are obsessed with their value” Such as, “High value man” “low value man” ect
I do know my 14 year old nephew is obsessed with making money in ways I never saw in my youth cohort
Nothing is more toxic than obsessing over money and status. Literally will poison your soul and ruin your life.
Welcome to capitalism baby!
Capitalism is an inadequate reason for all this, because we had decades of capitalism without this level of shit and toxicity.
“How did we get here from there?” One step at a time.
Not all consequences are immediate.
I don’t really see this as something new. None of it really. There have always been backward ass people. They have always called other kids losers and ostracized them. There has always been a classroom full of kids dragging everyone around them down. School never solved these problems so how am I supposed to react when I hear it’s getting worse?
It’s from the Matrix, maybe you’ve seen it. For those who haven’t here it is without giving any major spoilers: at one point one of the main characters tells the protagonist that if he wants to learn the truth he could take a red pill that he offers to him, but if he wants to remain oblivious and continue to live normally he should take a blue pill. They’re using this analogy to describe how the media peddles as normal what they consider wrong values and ideas like lgbtq tolerance, feminism and so on.
Needless to say, Tate is a big fan of that movie. So much so that he named his “course” the Matrix Academy. One of my former classmates actually paid for that nonsense. It was just a discord server and the lectures were useless. All the information there could be found for free on the internet by just doing a Google search or watching a few videos on Youtube.
When I was a kid in the 80s & 90s that’s when the parents get brought in.
Watch the series Adolescence (Netflix)
Next to the fact that every. Hour long. Episode. Is a one-take, it shows that this phenomenon is real. It is based on a true story and I won’t spoil anything, but it gets dark from the second it starts.
why periods in weird places?
Unlike the reference series, the comment was not done in 1 take and didn’t have the budget for professional editing.
It was a toilet comment. I can only take so long before people notice I’m gone.
Just read it out loud (even in your head) and you’ll notice it’s adding pauses for emphasis. Whether it’s good style or not is a different question, but the why seems pretty clear.
Either a 3rd grade drop out, or someone too old to remember what they learned in 3rd grade.
The series is addressed in the article
Every teacher I hear from (US) these days basically says the newest generation coming up is completely screwed. Unreal levels of behavioral issues that are not being addressed at home. Complete lack of engagement with the lesson plan, unfinished assignments all over. They need to curve grades left and right just to get the majority of the class to pass. The parents are more emboldened than ever to make the teachers’ lives hell over things they know nothing about and refuse to take responsibility for.
It’s easy to brush it off as the standard generational nose-thumbing…but this seems different. Something is really breaking down and I think social media is at the center of it.
I’ll broaden it to not just social media, but the totality of endless scrolling social media, plus endless access to narcissist “influencers”, plus addicting video games (inspired by gambling patterns), plus must watch addicting TV shows and movies on demand. A lot of this is endless dopamine machine. Add in both parents working and only children with no siblings is less socialization.
I am, not great at parenting, I’ve made hella mistakes. I’ve only one son and do my best.
The number of teachers/therapists (my son works a few programs for his needs) that have been floored by my willingness to parent and hold my son accountable for his actions, is far too high.
While I’ll take the compliment being “a breath of fresh air” (an actual compliment from a therapist) it bothers me more parents cant take thier own faults to accountability nor hold their children to any standard of conduct really saddens me. I shouldn’t be a wildflower in a field of dirt, it should be a field of flowers damn. A silly metaphor but you get my point hopefully.
I am, not great at parenting, I’ve made hella mistakes. I’ve only one son and do my best.
It sounds like you are
Not just the US. One of our school districts can’t fail anyone and your final grade is determined by the work you hand in.
It’s mass narcissism and it’s going to destroy our society.
If I don’t see signs of change soon, I’m getting tf out of here.
This is it. We’re a Narcissistic culture, and it’s getting worse.
Covid really fucked them in not getting normal socialization at school and put a lot of kids behind by a couple of years accedemically. Right now 4/5th grade and up are really screwed. Plus parents just aren’t engaged.
I’d at least consider parents aren’t engaged due to time and energy, cause of pressures at work.
Also, when I was at school there were teachers that put extra time and effort in with kids that were top of the class and bottom of the class. Bet it wouldn’t be like that now cause everyone is so rundown.
The curriculum has changed so much and policies require that kids with learning disabilities can have an IEP (Individualized Education Program) and teachers have to come up with alternative learning for multiple kids, leaving them with little time to do anything else. On top of that, experienced teachers have stated that behavior has taken a sharp decline. They no longer separate the problem kids from the rest of the class because studies have shown that their outcomes are better if they remain in normal classes. However, this forces teachers to deal with constant disruptions which causes negative effects on the other students.
Throw into that mix all the parents who think home schooling is best. Sure, for a select few it’s going to be better, but the majority are going to struggle in later life.
What usually happens is a parent gets reported to social services for child abuse. Then they go to facebook ranting about how bad the school is and that they’re being targeted. Then they pull their kids out of school to “homeschool” so they can continue to abuse their kids.
It is different, because never in human history has it been easier to influence people. We are literally addicted, as in the brain is literally addicted, to our little disinformation device, the output of which is largely controlled by malicious powerful entities. Now add impressionable young brains to the mix.
It is a pretty terrible scenario with no obvious solution.
Those kids are the next generations parents. What are their kids going to be like?
It’s a shame teachers are pressured to “curve grade” rather than just flunk these people and hold them back a grade.
Even when I went to elementary school over 15 years ago in Canada, kids weren’t allowed to be held back without written permission from their parents. I thought it was really fucking weird because we literally had a kid whose mom did all of his homework (everyone knew; he had horrible writing and she didn’t) and yet refused to put him in a remedial class or have him repeat a year.
I can’t help but wonder what Dad’s take on this situation was.
That assumes there was one (dad, or take from the dad).
Schools now lose funding when kids don’t pass, so admins press teachers to move them along.
Republicans really do destroy everything
This is true for nearly every state, from deep red to deep blue. It is not a party issue but a stupid policy that intended for teachers and faculty to work harder to teach students.
The ironic tragedy here is that the new MAGA GOP is going to destroy and dismantle public education, citing the “failure” of public education to meet the needs of our children, even though it was a Republican policy that crippled the system in the first place.
All Kids Left Behind
Murica’
Many if not all school districts in the States have their funding tied to their performance, so there is a negative incentive to make grades look good. My elementary school tried to place me in their Special Ed program because my grades would have brought the average up there.
Plus, holding back 60, 70, 80% of an entire class just isn’t logistically feasible in most cases.
Its so absurd.
I went to a rural title one highschool. I took general level classes and had honors/high honors at least half of my semesters.
Half way through my senior year, I moved. It sucked balls. My new school, was small, literally the smallest school in my state. Graduation class size was 54 students. It was outside the Capital city, and affluent. Everyone was a “prep” had money, some drove very fancy cars to school ect.
The new school didnt offer Gen level classes, only college and AP. I was upset at that because those classes were known to me to be super difficult at my old rural school. At that time I just wanted to smoke pot with my friends tbh. But … I took the classes.
Y’all. This little rich prep school’s College course classes were easier than my Title one school Gen Ed. I couldn’t believe it. This was 2006, and I know now, they did that to keep the funding going. All the little rich kids had parents who could afford to send them all to college, and they needed to look good for thier hard-to-get-into universities.
It still frustrates me the world is like this.
I believe it. I think the much older push against standardized tests was so that “fancy” schools could pump up their grades. I never understood the newer push against standardized tests, you want them exactly so schools can’t pump up their grades. Standardized tests create an actual level playing field.
The recent push came from Covid when many people could not take the tests, and then it stuck around after since administrators wanted to focus on your “well-roundedness” and not high test scores.
The newer push was years before covid.
Neither is passing a kid who doesn’t understand the material.
Something is really breaking down and I think social media is at the center of it.
I feel like you could apply this to almost every societal crisis we’re facing. It’s like social media took every little crack in the foundation and turned it into a chasm.
Parents in Facebook echo chambers trying to discover who to blame for their child’s shitty behaviour then getting into arguments when they are told to perhaps get off their phone and speak to their child.
Children in Facebook echo chambers where they make their neurodivergence their entire personality while simultaneously excusing any and all behaviour due to it.
If both groups spoke to each other a lot could be changed.
I retired from the job 5 years ago. Your description rings true from my experience then (and was a big part of me retiring), and the colleagues I’ve stayed in touch with say it’s very noticeably worse now. I’m glad I got out when I did.
From your experience, why do you think that is? Mostly social media? If so, what about it? Bad parenting? The whole Covid remote stuff? Is it economically driven? Are the schools doing anything differently that could cause it?
I would love to pin it on one thing, like social media. While I felt, feel, like that was a big variable in the downfall, I can’t underestimate the loss of the “American Dream”. I felt like phones should be banned. But some teachers felt like phones could be integrated into the curriculum. I could see both points, but honestly I just felt like society had passed me by. One of my master teachers, when I had been student teaching 25 years previously, said it was time to go when the students no longer entertained you. I felt like that was about right. I don’t think knowledge at your fingertips is a reason not to actually learn stuff.
Thanks for sharing that. Like any job, when it’s no longer fun, it’s time for a change.
lol, and here’s me thinking I’ll get to finally loosen these bootstraps one day. Wouldn’t be Millennial difficulty if something nice happened for once, so why should I expect reprieve in retirement age? Probably just be anxious af anyway because not being abused by another generation seems too good to be true.
No joke. We went from getting yelled at by old people for problems they caused, to being called old and getting shoved aside by the generation ahead of us, really freaking fast.
I feel like we’ve already been forgotten after we were robbed of opportunity and respect at every turn.
I try to focus my energy towards the good ones. There’s still good people out there. I’ve met many kids that would put the majority of adults to shame with their level of intelligence, maturity, and respect. The odds are so against them though.
Probably going to get slated for this but surely at some point we need to accept our being all nice and friendly all the time just doesn’t work.
Like if kids are this bad send them off to military school for a month till they shape up. Happens again 6 months, then 12. Government mandated, parents don’t like it, they can look after their kids better.
People are absolute shits and don’t give a fuck about others or their future. No amount of “please pay attention or you won’t understand algebra and won’t get a good job” will do anything, you will just get “Why do i need to learn algebra! I’ll never use that. John just told me to shut up, what am I meant to do? Just let him disrespect me like that. You should be talking to John!”
Fuck them. Make them do press ups in the rain see if they learn to shut up then.
I actually agree with you. There used to be real consequences for bad behavior and being lazy, and now you get told that it’s not really your fault. Zero concept of personal responsibility. Now society is an epidemic of mass narcissism and selfishness. It clearly isn’t sustainable. There are going to be severe consequences for our quality of life in the future, and that’s assuming society even survives this epidemic at all.
How many Gomer Pyles will that produce?
Maybe less than all the murderers we have now. Being straightened out by the military is a well known phenomenon. We can’t keep doing the same things when trends are showing they aren’t working, then expect them to work better. Something needs to be changed.
Based on who America voted for president I don’t feel very surprised about the issues and behavior of parents.
I would be surprised if this were the case in every state though.
Nooo, kids were like that form the ancient times /s.
Those damn machines, impacting the youth!
Those damn newspapers, impacting the youth!
Those damn radios, impacting the youth!
Those damn TVs, impacting the youth!
Those damn internet connected computers, impacting the youth!
Those damn smartphones, impacting the youth!
Those damn AI models, impacting the youth!
We really have reached a whole new level of impression.
Our youth now love luxury, they have bad manners, contempt for authority; they show disrespect for elders, and they love to chatter instead of exercise. Children are now tyrants not servants of their household. They no longer rise when elders enter the room. They contradict their parents, chatter before company, gobble up their food and tyrannize their teachers.
Thousands of years of this stuff.
I’m probably just another old idiot who can’t see things for what they really are, but social media does scare the hell out of me. It’s hard to imagine it being a good thing when personalities are shaped by algorithms that exist entirely to drive engagement so a company makes a buck.
It isn’t just rich chocolaty ovaltine. The kid isn’t being brainwashed to drink a sugary drink from time to time. The kid is a constant revenue stream.
I feel like literally every generation for the last 1000+ years probably had a similar sentiment
They no longer rise when elders enter the room. They contradict their parents,
Uh…
Seems like teachers and schools aren’t properly equipped for modern kids.
More like modern kids aren’t equipped to deal with reality.
