For those out of the loop, WomensStuff has a women-only rule, where men are respectfully asked to not reply to posts.

  • misterdoctor@lemmy.worldOP
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    26
    arrow-down
    13
    ·
    13 days ago

    It’s an extremely simple request that literally requires zero work to honor. There is no downside. Keeping it open and easy to find means higher engagement for the community and greater visibility on a safe, inclusive space for women. Feels like an easy w to me.

    • Demdaru@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      19
      arrow-down
      2
      ·
      13 days ago

      Conflicted.

      On one hand, their playground, their rules.

      On other, if you don’t want to interact with half of community, why not just, dunno…limit visibility? Make it actual safe space?

      I am good with anything and do respect their choice, just it’s fun to think about.

      • woelkchen@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        6
        arrow-down
        14
        ·
        13 days ago

        if you don’t want to interact with half of community, why not just, dunno…limit visibility?

        It’s not on the community to make it harder for their target audience to find them. It’s on people who scroll the All feed to leave posts alone that don’t concern them.

        • snooggums@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          20
          arrow-down
          1
          ·
          edit-2
          13 days ago

          The rules are not displayed in the All feed. Some specific communities are still welcoming of people who are not the topic being discussed.

          When you click a post, the rules might be hidden or at the bottom of the page. Do you take the effort to read all of the rules before posting in every community on the All feed?

          Do you take the time before voting, since some communities have banned down voting?

          • woelkchen@lemmy.world
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            4
            arrow-down
            17
            ·
            13 days ago

            When you click a post, the rules might be hidden or at the bottom of the page.

            It’s literally the topmost rule of the sidebar. If your client doesn’t display the sidebar properly, that’s on you and your choice of client. Default lemmy-ui displays it just fine.

            • snooggums@lemmy.world
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              15
              arrow-down
              1
              ·
              edit-2
              13 days ago

              I guess you haven’t ever used lemmy on a phone or in a narrow window on PC where it is hidden until you click a button to show the sidebar?

              I squished it to about a third of my desktop to make it switch from side to button. It is a button on mobile for me both in portrait and landscape. screenshot of the sidebar button

              Plus if you click on the comments indicator it scrolls down to the top comment underneath the button, so you have to scroll up to click it to expand.

              I’m just saying it isn’t always directly in the user’s face when they interact with a post and expecting everyone to double check the rules every comment is a bit silly of an expectation.

              • woelkchen@lemmy.world
                link
                fedilink
                arrow-up
                3
                arrow-down
                19
                ·
                13 days ago

                I guess you haven’t ever used lemmy on a phone or in a narrow window on PC where it is hidden until you click a button to show the sidebar?

                I’m grown up enough to just use the Subscribed feed, so I don’t even get posts not targeted at me, and I also am fully able to look up the rules from mobile devices. If that’s such a hassle for you, you’re unsuited for federated platforms where you have to accept to encounter a plethora of rules and posts not targeted at you.

                • BananaIsABerry@lemmy.zip
                  link
                  fedilink
                  arrow-up
                  14
                  ·
                  13 days ago

                  TIL: I’m not a grown up because I use the all feed instead of subscribing to specific communities.

                  Damn that’s tough.

                • Passerby6497@lemmy.world
                  link
                  fedilink
                  English
                  arrow-up
                  11
                  ·
                  13 days ago

                  I’m grown up enough to just use the Subscribed feed

                  L. O. L.

                  If you have to tell people you’re a grown up because you do something a specific way, or imply that you’d be a child to think or act differently than you do: you’re not a grown up at all, you’re a child in an oversized skin suit.

                • snooggums@lemmy.world
                  link
                  fedilink
                  English
                  arrow-up
                  6
                  ·
                  13 days ago

                  Do you mean this setting that I have set 99% of the time and I only temporarily switch to All once every couple of weeks to see if any new communities catch my interest?

                  That setting, right there? Guess I’m an adult except when I’m not!

        • Srh@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          9
          arrow-down
          2
          ·
          13 days ago

          If the post is in all it’s in the public forum You don’t get to have your safe space in the public forum. If you say something in public then be prepared. If you want to reach the public because of higher traffic does not mean you can tell people not to respond. I know that people will argue that it’s not fair but it gives off sealioning, im not touching you vibes.

        • Tonava@sopuli.xyz
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          3
          ·
          12 days ago

          I don’t see a problem with being public and having limiting rules - it’s perfectly fine for women or minority groups to have their own spaces - but never before have I seen such an odd approach to moderating. I too tumbled on one of their threads from ALL and it felt like at least third of the comments there was responded with, paraphrasing, “please never post again”. If every discussion reaching ALL gets like that, I’d imagine it would be easier to figure out some other solution, since it takes such insane amount of effort to go through so many comments and probably profiles and posting history to know who to reply that to, from moderating perspective. Or are they just saying that to everyone? Or everyone not subbed?? I doubt that many people getting answered with “please never post again” would want to join even if they did qualify…

          It’s just… I don’t understand the logistics of all that

    • snooggums@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      12
      arrow-down
      1
      ·
      edit-2
      13 days ago

      It is a request in the sidebar/bottom of the page that barely anyone looks at because the vast, vast majority of community rules boil down to ‘don’t be an ass and no porn’.

      I’m not opposed to community rules or anything, but saying it requires zero work is wrong because one has to intentionally take the time to check out and remember the rules or voluntarily block to avoid accidentally breaking the rules. It isn’t a lot of work, but it is certainly more than zero.

      I blocked to avoid intruding, because of my inability to keep track of community specific rules, so I hope it is successful and supportive as intended. If there was an option to set communities to read only like they are when banned that would be a neat feature.

      • misterdoctor@lemmy.worldOP
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        3
        arrow-down
        4
        ·
        13 days ago

        Every post I’ve seen has a disclaimer on it. Maybe that’s just certain posters who include the disclaimer in the post, though.

        But when I say zero effort, I mean literally it takes zero effort to respect the rule once you’re aware of it.

        • Beacon@fedia.io
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          19
          arrow-down
          1
          ·
          13 days ago

          Which doesn’t appear in anyone’s feed, you only see that when you specifically go to that community’s page. Which is yet another clear factor in why it should be set to private instead of public

          • woelkchen@lemmy.world
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            2
            arrow-down
            15
            ·
            13 days ago

            Which doesn’t appear in anyone’s feed, you only see that when you specifically go to that community’s page. Which is yet another clear factor in why it should be set to private instead of public

            If Fedia has a broken GUI, that’s not their responsibility. It’s the responsibility of All feed users not to badly interact with random posts.

            • TheTetrapod@lemmy.world
              link
              fedilink
              arrow-up
              12
              arrow-down
              2
              ·
              13 days ago

              I take issue with you defining “being a non-woman and commenting” as “badly interacting.”

            • Beacon@fedia.io
              link
              fedilink
              arrow-up
              9
              arrow-down
              1
              ·
              13 days ago

              No, if you don’t like how a platform works, then that’s the wrong platform for you to use.

        • snooggums@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          9
          arrow-down
          1
          ·
          13 days ago

          When I click on a post out of the All or Subscribed feed I don’t go to the main community page.

          • woelkchen@lemmy.world
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            1
            arrow-down
            13
            ·
            13 days ago

            When I click on a post out of the All or Subscribed feed I don’t go to the main community page.

            It’s literally the topmost rule of the sidebar. If your client doesn’t display the sidebar properly, that’s on you and your choice of client. Default lemmy-ui displays it just fine.

    • Beacon@fedia.io
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      16
      arrow-down
      6
      ·
      13 days ago

      It’s an extremely simple request that literally requires zero work to honor.

      It literally requires every single person currently on the fediverse to actively block it. And it requires every single new person that arrives in the fediverse to learn about this group, learn about their rule, learn how to block a group, and then go ahead and block it. Everyone who comes here has to do that, for every single new user that joins the fediverse. Forever.

      There is no downside.

      There are tons of downsides. All the previously mentioned work, plus all the people who post there and then get reprimanded for it, which causes unpleasant feelings, making people feel excluded from the public space of the fediverse that we want people to feel welcome at, etc i really could keep listing more downsides.

      Keeping it open and easy to find means higher engagement for the community and greater visibility on a safe, inclusive space for women.

      No, it’s the opposite of that. Keeping it open to people who actually aren’t supposed to engage with the content means it’s always going to be a muddled antagonistic mess.

      Feels like an easy w to me.

      Feels like an unforced loss for everyone to me.

      • Nefara@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        3
        arrow-down
        12
        ·
        13 days ago

        It literally requires every single person currently on the fediverse to actively block it. And it requires every single new person that arrives in the fediverse to learn about this group, learn about their rule, learn how to block a group, and then go ahead and block it. Everyone who comes here has to do that, for every single new user that joins the fediverse. Forever.

        The community only excludes men from participating

        • Beacon@fedia.io
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          9
          ·
          13 days ago

          Seriously, that’s your retort? Ok fine, I’ll rephrase.

          It literally requires about half of every single person currently on the fediverse to actively block it. And it requires about half of every single new person that arrives in the fediverse to learn about this group, learn about their rule, learn how to block a group, and then go ahead and block it. About half of everyone who comes here has to do that, for about half of every single new user that joins the fediverse. Forever.

        • misterdoctor@lemmy.worldOP
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          6
          arrow-down
          14
          ·
          13 days ago

          Bro is absolutely sick to his stomach and vomiting that this one community isn’t specifically designed for him and that people might have to * gulp * read the sidebar.

          • Beacon@fedia.io
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            9
            arrow-down
            1
            ·
            13 days ago

            I couldn’t be more clear in my reasoning. If you don’t want to read and reply to what I actually said, then you are the problem.

          • TheTetrapod@lemmy.world
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            9
            arrow-down
            1
            ·
            13 days ago

            I’ve never seen a community’s sidebar, since I use Lemmy on my phone like probably half of all users.

            • misterdoctor@lemmy.worldOP
              link
              fedilink
              arrow-up
              3
              arrow-down
              8
              ·
              13 days ago

              So do I? It’s very easy to view the sidebar of a community. It’s a good way to get to know them and understand what unique rules they might have.

              • TheTetrapod@lemmy.world
                link
                fedilink
                arrow-up
                9
                ·
                13 days ago

                I’m actually curious, do you use the browser version or a Lemmy app? I’m on Boost and I would have to click into the community if I wanted to see anything more than its name and instance.

                • misterdoctor@lemmy.worldOP
                  link
                  fedilink
                  arrow-up
                  2
                  arrow-down
                  3
                  ·
                  13 days ago

                  I use Voyager and you do have to tap into the community and then I think View Sidebar is an option in another menu

          • Feathercrown@lemmy.world
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            1
            arrow-down
            1
            ·
            edit-2
            12 days ago

            Paint it however you want, you cannot change the landscape. If you can only win by imagining your opponent this way, you’ve already lost. Your presence is not enjoyable nor necessary.

    • dil@lemmy.zip
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      9
      arrow-down
      1
      ·
      13 days ago

      Have to click the community, and know to check the sidebar, oh fuck are we back on reddit

    • Clent@lemmy.dbzer0.com
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      10
      arrow-down
      5
      ·
      13 days ago

      literally requires zero work to honor.

      No true at all. I must at minimum perform the work to stay attentive to the community and its unique rules.

      Most community rules can be narrowed down to “don’t be a dick” while a women’s only community also requires one to not have a dick or have one but be transitioning away from having one.

      • snooggums@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        8
        arrow-down
        1
        ·
        13 days ago

        The best part is that the second rule of !womensstuff@piefed.blahaj.zone is:

        Don’t be a dick. No personal attacks, no aggression, play nice.

        And apparently they moved because I had blocked the one on lazy.social and haven’t come across the new one. So even blocking to avoid accidentally breaking rules doesn’t always work.

        • Mouselemming@sh.itjust.works
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          6
          arrow-down
          13
          ·
          13 days ago

          Guess what? If you accidentally break the rules, the mods will helpfully remove the comment and send you a polite reminder! You won’t even lose karma over it because there is no karma! At worst you’ll experience something women often do in real life: having your voice dismissed.

          • samus12345@sh.itjust.works
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            11
            arrow-down
            3
            ·
            13 days ago

            “Having your voice dismissed due to your gender is wrong.”

            dismisses your voice due to your gender

            I hope that’s not a reason they actually give, because it’s incredibly hypocritical.

          • snooggums@lemmy.world
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            7
            ·
            edit-2
            13 days ago

            I think it is hilarious that they have a don’t be a dick rule, it is completely on point. Thank you for the smug explanation about karma that has nothing to do with what we are talking about!

            My lamentation for not having built in tools to allow them or myself to manage participation short of blocks and bans is about the lack of tools. There are settings to limit who can post, but as far as I know there aren’t tools to limit participation short of a ban or block. Heck, I would love the ability to set notes that display for me about communities or users as reminders because I would add notes about not commenting or not down voting for the communities that have that as a rule but also have content I want to see.

    • Feathercrown@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      1
      arrow-down
      1
      ·
      12 days ago

      It requires a change to the whole flow of interaction actually. No other public community requires you to check the rules to see if you’re allowed to post at all.