Provoke into what exactly? Joining NATO or EU? Polls before the Russian annexation of Crimea showed most Ukrainians want to join EU, not NATO. These two are separate and distinct entities. As expected with the Russians, they think EU and NATO are one and the same. Truth of the matter is that Russians are first and foremost nationalist and whatever second. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eurasianism. For the Russians, it’s “either you’re with us, or against us” mentality.
The Russians have always been chauvinists who believe they deserve a piece of the pie as a global power, regardless of whoever rules in Kremlin. Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn, the imprisoned dissident and the West’ poster boy of the brutality of Soviet regime, was also an ultranationalist who believe in Russian superiority despite being against Soviet rule. Alexei Navalny, who was Putin’s late main opponent, was also approving of annexing Crimea and hinted at being approving of the Russian invasion of Ukraine. Navalny’s wife framed the war in Ukraine as akin to a civil war, the same framing that Putin used to say that Ukraine’s independence was illegal and always belonged to Russia.
It goes to show that despite internal factionalism among Russian elites, they all still agree that Russia is a country on its own and don’t need anyone but themselves. And any neighbouring country who tries to align away from them will be punished.
Alexei Navalny, who was Putin’s late main opponent, was also approving of annexing Crimea and hinted at being approving of the Russian invasion of Ukraine.
That’s a series of misunderstandings and thesises by Russian propaganda. In the end, he didn’t approve of annexation and invasions. From what I remember he only hinted at the difficulty of solving the issue of Crimea in future. Even if you find specific posts or reactions from him that suggest supporting what Russia did, they are not explained enough to be sure and those interpretations have been denied by himself in later interviews and posts.
I’ve listened to him for years. I believe that it’s impossible for him to approve Russian expansion already because of what he consistently suggested: Russia needs to think of its problems within first, and when it comes to international relations it should be good friends with Europe. In no universe he could think that violent invasions or annexations or wars would contribute to that. And I don’t find him to be any kind of supremacist. He explained a lot of issues with Russia and wanted to solve them.
Putin said that the “green men” without insignia on their uniforms who took over government facilities in Crimea in 2015 are not Russians, until he admitted months later that they actually are. Days before the Russian invasion of Ukraine, Putin reiterated many times that he will not invade and that the Russian troops in separatist-occupied Donbas and Luhansk regions are only there for “peacekeeping”. He told the outside world that they are being paranoid over the potential Russian invasion.
Putin and Kremlin lied many times. I don’t know why you would still believe someone who has been proven to lie many times unless you have a battered partner syndrome.
Yeah the tactic is to lie as much as they can to benefit themselves; if you call them out on it they act all offended and blame you for being russophobic or whatever suits their means at the moment, and use it as propaganda to paint “the west” as an stupid, prejudiced enemy. If you just let it happen, they laught at what a weak moron you are to allow yourself be fooled like that, and use it as propaganda to paint “the west” as a stupid, weak enemy
The article you link quotes Putin claiming that he has never opposed Ukraine joining NATO. That is not only demonstrably false but also just a misuse of the article that muddies the water.
Putin has absolutely opposed Ukraine joining NATO (on the basis that he has always planned on annexing Ukraine in whole or in part) and has used his power to materially prohibit their membership. Ukraine’s nuclear disarmament was part of this plan.
The article you link quotes Putin claiming that he has never opposed Ukraine joining NATO. That is not only demonstrably false but also just a misuse of the article that muddies the water.
That’s not true:
“As for Ukraine’s membership of the EU, we have never objected to this,” Putin told Slovak Prime Minister Robert Fico at talks in China. “As for NATO, this is another issue… Our position here is well known: we consider this unacceptable for ourselves.”
on the basis that he has always planned on annexing Ukraine in whole or in part
And that’s just pure speculation… And afaik hogwash.
If the current trajectory of russian aggression has not yet convinced you, if Georgia’s annexation has not yet convinced you, if Transnistria has not convinced you, if Donetsk, Luhansk, and Kherson have not convinced you (despite pro-russian separatists in the region serving as erstwhile justification for annexation) then I do not know what to tell you.
What Russia says and does is very much different. Russia has thus far supported every single EU-“skeptic” movement from Britain to Armenia. Hell, just two days ago an article was posted about how yet another Russian botnet attempts to prevent Armenia from deepening ties with the EU:
I’m in no way on Russias side here but there have definitely been plans to provoke them: e.g. https://www.rand.org/pubs/research_briefs/RB10014.html
Provoke into what exactly? Joining NATO or EU? Polls before the Russian annexation of Crimea showed most Ukrainians want to join EU, not NATO. These two are separate and distinct entities. As expected with the Russians, they think EU and NATO are one and the same. Truth of the matter is that Russians are first and foremost nationalist and whatever second. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eurasianism. For the Russians, it’s “either you’re with us, or against us” mentality.
The Russians have always been chauvinists who believe they deserve a piece of the pie as a global power, regardless of whoever rules in Kremlin. Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn, the imprisoned dissident and the West’ poster boy of the brutality of Soviet regime, was also an ultranationalist who believe in Russian superiority despite being against Soviet rule. Alexei Navalny, who was Putin’s late main opponent, was also approving of annexing Crimea and hinted at being approving of the Russian invasion of Ukraine. Navalny’s wife framed the war in Ukraine as akin to a civil war, the same framing that Putin used to say that Ukraine’s independence was illegal and always belonged to Russia.
It goes to show that despite internal factionalism among Russian elites, they all still agree that Russia is a country on its own and don’t need anyone but themselves. And any neighbouring country who tries to align away from them will be punished.
That’s a series of misunderstandings and thesises by Russian propaganda. In the end, he didn’t approve of annexation and invasions. From what I remember he only hinted at the difficulty of solving the issue of Crimea in future. Even if you find specific posts or reactions from him that suggest supporting what Russia did, they are not explained enough to be sure and those interpretations have been denied by himself in later interviews and posts.
I’ve listened to him for years. I believe that it’s impossible for him to approve Russian expansion already because of what he consistently suggested: Russia needs to think of its problems within first, and when it comes to international relations it should be good friends with Europe. In no universe he could think that violent invasions or annexations or wars would contribute to that. And I don’t find him to be any kind of supremacist. He explained a lot of issues with Russia and wanted to solve them.
Umm… no, that’s not true.
You don’t have to like Russia and/or Putin. I certainly don’t. But these kinds of stupid accusations wont help you understand politics.
Putin said that the “green men” without insignia on their uniforms who took over government facilities in Crimea in 2015 are not Russians, until he admitted months later that they actually are. Days before the Russian invasion of Ukraine, Putin reiterated many times that he will not invade and that the Russian troops in separatist-occupied Donbas and Luhansk regions are only there for “peacekeeping”. He told the outside world that they are being paranoid over the potential Russian invasion.
Putin and Kremlin lied many times. I don’t know why you would still believe someone who has been proven to lie many times unless you have a battered partner syndrome.
Yeah the tactic is to lie as much as they can to benefit themselves; if you call them out on it they act all offended and blame you for being russophobic or whatever suits their means at the moment, and use it as propaganda to paint “the west” as an stupid, prejudiced enemy. If you just let it happen, they laught at what a weak moron you are to allow yourself be fooled like that, and use it as propaganda to paint “the west” as a stupid, weak enemy
The article you link quotes Putin claiming that he has never opposed Ukraine joining NATO. That is not only demonstrably false but also just a misuse of the article that muddies the water.
Putin has absolutely opposed Ukraine joining NATO (on the basis that he has always planned on annexing Ukraine in whole or in part) and has used his power to materially prohibit their membership. Ukraine’s nuclear disarmament was part of this plan.
That’s not true:
And that’s just pure speculation… And afaik hogwash.
Crimea and eastern Ukraine would like to have a word with you as of 4 years ago.
Removed by mod
If the current trajectory of russian aggression has not yet convinced you, if Georgia’s annexation has not yet convinced you, if Transnistria has not convinced you, if Donetsk, Luhansk, and Kherson have not convinced you (despite pro-russian separatists in the region serving as erstwhile justification for annexation) then I do not know what to tell you.
Those aren’t proof. Those are speculations.
Edit - Context for the removed comment:
I said that the donbas was at war with Kiew since 2014. That was supposedly disinformation. It wasn’t
What Russia says and does is very much different. Russia has thus far supported every single EU-“skeptic” movement from Britain to Armenia. Hell, just two days ago an article was posted about how yet another Russian botnet attempts to prevent Armenia from deepening ties with the EU:
https://theins.ru/en/news/285805
That’s a think tank research on what could be done and what the effects would be rather than a plan
I think the result is similar. If a well notorious think-tank of my opponent wrote a document about 10 ways to piss me off, I’d feel provoked.
Nevertheless, that doesn’t justify what’s Russia is doing in the least.
It would’ve been funny if one of the researched methods of provoking Russia was “have a think-tank do a report on ways to provoke Russia”