The uni-party trash system.
At least Democrats want to slowly slide us into a monarchy. MAGA wants it NOW!
What a country…
*3rd world shithole country
do you want cancer to kill you now or do chemo and live for another 20 years?
The fact that there are so many dislikes proves how propagandized the average American is. “How dare you call both sides the same” Well, they ojectively are pretty much the same with few exceptions.
Especially for non-Usian people, doubly especially for those on the working end of US “diplomacy” - bombs, coups and sanctions come regardless of which US administration, there is literally no difference whatsoever.
You must be very privileged or very ignorant to see things this way.
The Democratic Party is somewhat conservative and stand firmly behind capitalism. But they aren’t fascists. Not at all.Uhhhhh yes they are lmao. They just have an insignificantly smaller out group. They consider the rest of the world fair game for death camps, torture, starvation, and everything else Republicans do, and they even agree with most of their most fascist shit (like the children in cages and the Patriot Act, which were not only not stopped but expanded with Dems at the helm).
They just think gay people and people of color are a sizeable demographic, but not sizeable enough to stop the violence against them, just kind of pretend they’re the only allies.
They keep doing that because idiots keep buying it. I don’t think Mussolini would have been much better if he copped black slang for his propaganda material and was ok with gay people in the military.
Yeah they’re the same except one of them wants to kill me and my friends
Both of them want to kill you and your friends. One is just stupid/racist enough that they’re willing to do away with your labor power ASAP while the other would rather let their billionaire masters squeeze every penny out of you in debt peonage for the rest of your life (hopefully less than 65 years).
However, I’m far less interested in what they want to do to other gringos than the fact that they’ve been workshopping even worse than this brutality on the rest of us for centuries and y’all were okay with it. You’d continue to be okay with it if there wasn’t a dang Cheeto in the white house or whatever the fuck.
Let me rephrase: one of them is willing to let me and my friends die because they’re more interested in making money than providing for our needs, and one of them wants to shoot us in the fucking heads for being queer. But yeah the ones who hate us for being queer aren’t actually worse than the ones who simply don’t care about us
They also want to shoot you in the head for not being white. But yeah, no worse than the ones who simply don’t care about your wellbeing. In fact, the latter deserves even more of your ire, for some reason
me and my friends die
“Sure, they may be committing a modern Holocaust, but what about MEEEEEEE”
Western liberals are the most self centred people alive, you literally don’t see foreigners as real people.
Meeeeee, and also all of the other non-cishets, non-whites, and non-men
You’re right though, western liberals are the worst. I’m going to take your advice and become a western conservative, and will be doing my best to actively hurt people, because you think it’s better when American women and gays and nonwhites die than when they don’t
all of the other
Once again, we are reminded that western liberals literally don’t conceptualise foreigners as real people.
I’m going to take your advice and become a western conservative
By all means, the difference is entirely performative; conservatives are just more honest about it.
Nice ahistorical analogy, but the democrats have proven very capable of literally killing people abroad for the crime of being brown and desiring autonomy, as well as turning a blind eye when cops and the national security apparatus murder people on a whim at home. So forgive me for not seeing them as polar opposites.
Compare the last 6 months to the previous 4 years. You know they’re not.
People with the same goals can disagree on minor implementation details.
We’re talking concentration camp vs no concentration camp here. Child rapist vs no child rapist. International cooperation vs tariff chaos.
Biden couldn’t stop touching and kissing clearly uncomfortable, random kids in front of hundreds of cameras. He’s been accused of rape. Stop pretending we all live in your Marvel movie concept of the world.
Seriously, this is the kind of bullshit that swings so far left it circles back to right.
The goal of this administration is to remove existing government institutions and replace them with far right traditionalist based institutions that the creator of the Heritage Foundation (Paul Weyrich) began writing about ~1999.
I think that we have to look at a whole series of possibilities for bypassing the institutions that are controlled by the enemy. If we expend our energies on fighting on the “turf” they already control, we will probably not accomplish what we hope, and we may spend ourselves to the point of exhaustion. The promising thing about a strategy of separation is that it has more to do with who we are, and what we become, than it does with what the other side is doing and what we are going to do about it.
The people that created the term “cultural marxism,” want you to believe this stupid both sides are essentially the same shit so you’re less resistant to them dismantling the parts of government that people had to fight very hard for. Voters rights, civil rights, and civil liberties have always been under attack by this same group of people. Now you’ve got this dumbass propaganda telling people that since those rights have always been under attack, you might as well just assume it won’t matter if they cease to exist.
You need help.
Apologies for the facts and documented history you don’t want to hear 🤷♀️
I know Project 2025 hasn’t been brought up nonstop over the last year or anything, but if you can somehow imagine a publicly available document laying all this shit out point by point, it might help you understand where I’m coming from.
One side supports a criminal Nazi apologist who tried to overthrow our Democracy and hasn’t given up yet. The other side brings a knife to the gun fight.
They’re not even remotely the same. 40 years ago that may have been closer to true.
The DNC isn’t fighting for workers. They are bringing a gun to the gunfight, they just aren’t interested in using it against the GOP, as ultimately both serve capital. The US has never been a democracy for the people.
oh god i agree with cowbee wholeheartedly in a thread of discourse…
oh god oh fuck oh shit i can feel it happening… is it warm in here?
Я чувствую, как марксизм-ленинизм просачивается в мой мозг!!! make it stop….
Теперь я чувствую себя белым и пушистым… как коммунистический медведь.
—-
anyway joking aside appreciate lemmy collectively telling neolibs to shut the fuck up bc while plenty of things .ml says piss me off, they don’t piss me off nearly as much as seeing americans who haven’t ripped the bandaid off yet.
Octagon9561:
proves how propagandized the average American is
PastaFARRian:
✅
Ok, explain how Democrats support Nazis that attempted a coup?
I’m no fan of the democrats, but they don’t want to systematically exterminate people like me.
but they don’t want to systematically exterminate people like me.
Lol, typical american liberal “systemic extermination is fine so long as it’s not being done to MEEEE”
I wish the nice lady who brought slave markets to Libya hadn’t been shunned by MISOGYNISTS, I could be sipping mimosas right now smh
I dunno, no Democrat ever threatened to make my country the 51st state since the 19th century…
Congratulations not to be a citizen of one of the many countries that have been under the barrel of Democratic forign policy. But apparently it’s fine to do it to non-white countries
I couldn’t agree more. Also:
Except MAGA is not neoliberalism unless we think tariffs are now “free trade”. I get the point that neither party will wield power against capitalism, but they still use their power differently.
Yeah you’re right, calling it “neoliberalism” at this point is questionable. They’re also blocking renewable energy businesses.
but they still use their power differently.
Well…Do they though? On that pesky genocide (sorry I forgot–lets not call it ‘genocide’, right, that makes dems queasy-- how about we just say some people seem to have dropped dead), Bidens pretend “push back” and “negotiations” and “red lines” and “plans to build a dock to get food in and then hand it to the Israelis just like every single other land border crossing” all show that the dem centrists are simply mercenaries paid by zionists. mercenaries who take the time to put up some theatre for their evil so people dont have to acknowledge it, but the exact same outcomes happen either way. Most of the deaths and most of the building demolitions happened under Biden. When you and I start trying to parse if it was slightly faster under Trump, aren’t we missing the point?
We lost Roe under Biden, who famously never supported a womans right to choose until right before he got tapped to be VP. Strange coincidence?
Appointing Merrick Garland as AG and then pretending to be powerless while Garland proceeded to lean right and sit on his hands for 4 entire years is another example. As is cracking down on free speech. And what did Biden do in the wake of all the police murders that the defund and reallocate movement brought to his door? He said explicitly that he didnt agree with the massive movement on the left, and shut it down, actually increasing police funding as an extra “eff you” to the dem voters. Same as a republican would. Wheres this imagined difference?
And Biden famously told rooms full of rich donors at the end of Trumps term that “nothing would fundamentally change” (from Trump’s first term) under him. This emncapsulates this whole discussion perfectly. Biden swearing to the rich that nothing will change, while pretending to run on change.
This is the same Biden who shut down a rail strike, and then slowly over time negotiated a tiny fraction of what the strikers wanted, and then called it a victory on their behalf-- and then had the effing gall to walk a picket line for a photo op so his surrogates could trumpet how union-friendly he was. https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/dec/01/joe-biden-rail-strike-labor-unions
Same Biden who during his term bragged about being harder on immigration than Trump ever had been-- and wore it like a badge of honor that he’d “closed the southern border”. https://jacobin.com/2024/06/biden-asylum-executive-order-border
Today centrist dems wont even admit there was ever any problem. So I guess you’d say we should change nothing and ignore the wildly eroding support and the poll numbers showing the democratic party has just 28% favorability?
So I guess you’d say we should change nothing and ignore the wildly eroding support and the poll numbers showing the democratic party has just 28% favorability?
My brother in Christ, you’re not talking to a liberal here.
deleted by creator
No, that one belongs in the shared space too. It was Biden who literally bombed the infrastructure that made it possible for Germany to meet its energy needs without reliance on buying US oil/lng. Who froze all foreign assets that belonged to Afghanistan, essentially stealing billions of dollars that belonged to the Afghani people? Biden. Who froze all Russian assets and tried to make it illegal on a global scale to do business with “the bad guy” state? Biden. And while you may hate Russia if you’re a typical propagandized westerner, that doesn’t mean most of the rest of the world, particularly global south countries, do as well.
From 3 years ago:
“With Russia losing access to its foreign currency reserves, a message has been sent to all countries that they can’t count on these money stashes to actually be theirs in the event of tension. As such, it may make less and less sense for global reserve managers to hold dollars for safety, given that they could be taken away right when they’re most needed. Russia isn’t the first country to get this lesson in recent months. The Biden administration’s move to seize Afghanistan’s cash assets and prevent their access by the Taliban was another recent signal that reserves can be frozen.”
That was all thanks to the Democrats during the Biden regime. Trump is putting as many nails into that coffin as he can, but we shouldn’t pretend Republicans are the only ones responsible for showing the world that the dollar is dangerous and the US cannot be trusted.
.
European here and before this last Trump term nobody cared about the US, nor knew what people did over there.
I’m also European and this is bullshit lmao
deleted by creator
excluding wars?
Why? Why should wars be excluded?
deleted by creator
Yes. But how are you justifying that caveat?
I fucking hope, but we already seen that at 1st Trump term and after Biden was elected entire EU again got back to licking US boot, including something as unbelivable as fully allowing nordstream sabotage.
.
Wow, “don’t bother voting” agitprop this early? This is going to be a big election!
No. Just dont vote red or blue.
Or ‘centrist’ 'independent whos actually fasch.
“Would you rather the oceans die or the trees die.”
- Neither.
“Hitler”
‘We Have No Coherent Message’: Democrats Struggle to Oppose Trump
More than 50 interviews with Democratic leaders revealed a party struggling to decide what it believes in, what issues to prioritize and how to confront an aggressive right-wing administration.
Democrats are self-critical of their inability to take positions distinct from their Republican colleagues without splintering off conservative support? Democrats must be right-wingers.
Its almost like First-past-the-post voting artificially limits the number of viable political parties to two and should be replaced immediately.
At the very least, you would think democracy advocates in the democratic party would be falling over each other to implement such a much needed reform of our voting systems in the blue states they control. Democrats themselves admit non stop that First-past-the-post voting is a huge problem every election when they screech about the small numbers of 3rd party voters. Democrars publicly admit they know the voting system is broken, yet FPTP remains in use in the vast majority of the country.
How can you be so upset about a recurring problem and then do nothing to resolve it? There is no excuse. The democrats want to hold your vote hostage and they are using the republican party to threaten you to do it. While they may not be exactly the same as the republicans, they are a part of the problem with our country.
The democratic party must lose its monopoly on resisting the republicans. We should have a free market of ideas competing with each other. We could have multiple chances to defeat the republicans every election We may one day be free to vote how we want.
Electoral Reform Videos
First Past The Post voting (What most states use now)
Videos on alternative electoral systems
First-past-the-post voting artificially limits the number of viable political parties to two
Arguably limits viable parties to One. Quite a few states are functionally single party oligarchies, thanks to winner-take-all election results. States that split 55/45 by party affiliation will routinely have legislatures that are closer to 70/30 by representative. And control of statewide office typically means a single party veto even when the legislature is split.
How can you be so upset about a recurring problem and then do nothing to resolve it?
It’s a big, systemic problem that requires a large coordinated professionalized opposition to change. And that means organized manpower, large amounts of money/resources, and an ideologically committed media apparatus to help coordinate the reform effort.
When we’ve got none of the above? And, even worse, an incumbent party system dedicated to resisting any kind of reform (often violently), building that kind of organization is incredibly difficult.
We should have a free market of ideas competing with each other.
I can’t imagine how a more fractured and adversarial constellation of movements would benefit us.
We need a coalition that’s collaborative, not a marketplace of minor opposition parties that’s fighting for vote share.
The whole appeal of Ranked Choice is that candidates aren’t competing with one another in a market for vote-share. They can collaborate - as Mamdani and Lander did - towards a commonly shared policy goal.
Yeah, I’m sure the Democrats will eventually move back to the left of their own accord if we just keep voting for them, keep our heads down, and try not to rock the boat.
You forgot donating more money so their analyst friends can make millions explaining how cost of living and support for genocide are not the topics to address, instead focusing on people who love Dick Cheney but think Trump is a bit too far.
“Everything I don’t like is posted in bad faith”
Well it is, you lying bastard!
Hey I am kind of centrist ( Center left liberal for people in Europe) , did your good guys release the Epstein file?
In precisely the same way your elves fixed climate change, yes.
We have good guys?
There is no good/bad in capitalism.
DNC never sent DHS and ice to deport and create fake crimes against my Muslim friend for being an Iranian student in physics. But sure, both sides.
They did though, through the creation and expansion of the secure communities program.. It was attempted to be walked back via the PEP after Obama earned the “deporter in chief” moniker, but yes the DNC did, has and will continue to do so.
Their style is usually more “don’t make a scene” then “suns out, guns out” but the end result is ultimately the same.
Nah, they just committed genocide
Thanks for pointing that out, I’ll be sure to vote Republican
Whataboutism
You mean what you just did in response to the initial thread?
No
Are you thinking of a different country
No
interesting to see right wing memes even on lemmy.
Oh, yeah, the firmly right wing belief that Republicans are working for the same policies as Dems. That’s all I hear from GOP idiots, how much democrats are interchangeable with their preferred fascist and not at all pedophile communist trans terrorists.
Be fr.
From the tone i gather that you don’t agree with me?
Have a look at the picture again.
the graphic states that the 2 parties are 100% equal, except one is pro-life and one doesn’t do anything against climate change.This is anti democrat-party propaganda, well disguised as a funny picture.
It’s a leftist meme, hating on two far-right parties is basic leftism.
fair.
Some stuff about Alligator Alcatraz…
Some stuff about hooking a brain dead pregnant woman up to life support to be kept alive like a science experiment and forced to give birth…
Some stuff about dismantling of government institutions like the department of education…
Some stuff about closing the civil rights office that was created in response to the patriot act…
Some stuff about not being sure if we have to follow habeas corpus…
Ya I could totally see how both sides are essentially the same…
The state did all this with absolute cooperation from the dems. They’re co-workers working together in the same place for the same people with the same goals.
I recommend this book bc you seem to be misunderstanding or ignoring the history that led us to this point.
The Radical Mind: The Origins of Right-Wing Catholic and Protestant Coalition Building
The radical aims of the New Christian Right have been obscured by the way they cultivated a shared identity of victimhood and manipulated the discourse about backlash to create a nostalgic idea of the past that they then leveraged to justify their right-wing policy goals. The Catholic-Protestant alliance constructed an imagined past that they projected into the future as their ideal vision of society. Ebin calls this strategy “prefigurative traditionalism”—a paradoxical prefiguring of a manufactured past. Using this tactic, the New Christian Right coalition disguised the radicality of its politics by framing their aims as reactionary and defensive rather than proactive and offensive.
Funny how the same prefigurative traditionalism and claims about victimhood/attacks on traditional values can be seen in far right leaders across the globe, but nobody ever seems to point out the similarities.
that’s neat and all but it doesn’t respond to or subvert technocrit and his point in any real way.
he’s not making an argument about the origin of our current system, he’s claiming that the status quo is upheld equally by both democrats and republicans who work together to prevent change or radical politics from ever emerging in the american political psyche.
Funny how the same prefigurative traditionalism and claims about victimhood/attacks on traditional values can be seen in far right leaders across the globe, but nobody ever seems to point out the similarities.
i think everyone is pointing out these similarities. somewhat ironically, i think someone like technocrit is pointing out more important similarities than someone like you who is drawing an imaginary line in the sand. regardless, the whole world is talking about the rising tide of fascism and i think it says more about you than the world or global discourse that you’d posit nobody is talking about it, bc people certainly are. it’s all we’ve talked about for 5-10 years - across the entire west and more.
i think what you’re actually noticing or upset about is that nobody seems to do anything about it…
The history that led us here should be pretty convincing evidence as to why the argument both sides are equivalent or working together is false. Only one side has ever promoted voter suppression and roll backs of protections for rights, and equality, and a desire to return to “traditional values.” The U.S. history behind all of this and the creation of a moral majority, which at its core is a desire to protect and enforce white male supremacy, can be traced back to the individuals that created the Heritage Foundation.
It’s fair to say the strategy the Dems have used (trying to appease moderates out of fear of losing them to the right) is a bad one bc they don’t seem to understand what they’re actually working against, and it also plays into the false narrative of the right as somehow being a victim to a “cultural war.”
My point about victimhood being shared by fascists globally, is that there seems to be more evidence of far right leaders using the same strategies and working together globally against democracy vs there being any evidence that the modern two party system is a result of Dems working with Republicans or both sides being equivalent.
But thanks so much for explaining to me what I’m awckshully noticing.
Pretending that your horse with the blinders on view of history is just objective reality doesnt make it so nor does it absolve you from having evidence based positions. You can’t just handwave proof your ridiculous statements by saying “history is evidence enough”.
Only one side has ever promoted voter suppression and roll backs of protections
Lmao this is funny as fuck. PSL and the Green party got sued to hell and back by the Dems not a fuckin year ago to prevent them from being on several state ballots, an action that was probably coordinated with Republicans since they conveniently did not have overlapping lawsuits. Democrats passed the fucking Patriot act and it’s extensions, Democrats passed the 90s crime bill.
You are still pretending rhetorical and strategic differences are just fundamentally unsurmountable divisions while outright denying the reality that these two parties approve of the same policies with their actions, and rarely do Democrats expend as much energy rolling back the most reactionary policies of the Reps as they do chiding leftists or demanding donations or passing bills in support of Zionism and the MIC.
History has shown Dems to be playing the role of wolf in sheeps clothings for over a century lmao, what are you talking about? Even the “New Deal” of FDR was actually used to placate the actual demands of the labor movement, after he promised to help if they campaigned for him, and then turned around and outlawed their strikes and busted them when he got in office. From Obama promising to close GitMo but actually accelerating it and the use of drone strikes, Biden letting Roe V Wade be overturned despite Dems for decades running on codifying it, hell even Bill Clinton is resposible for the implementation of private prisons to basically make slavery legal again.
Dems are not your friends. Sure MAGA is the BBEG, but Dems are all the henchmen with different colored shirts you need to fight on the way. They enable and support the BBEG. Sure one is worse, but the other one is still trying to fuck you over too, they’re not your ally. And to realize that none of the parties are here for you is a scary thought, and many people want to desperatley push it away for the safe and comfortable thought that you have a champion to fight for you and you’re not alone. Well you’re not alone, but its not the Dems by your side, it’s the other workers. And unfortunatley that means you’ll have to get your hands dirty directly, but turning away from the truth won’t make it easier.
he promised to help if they campaigned for him, and then turned around and outlawed their strikes and busted them when he got in office
Not to mention naming a fucking Truman VP when it was nearly certain FDR will die and war was won.
History has shown Dems to be playing the role of wolf in sheeps clothings for over a century
These are called politicians. They are humans like anyone else and they should never be placed on a pedestal or treated like they’re above criticism for being on your team.
The both sides are the same argument denies the reality that voting in your best interest and gaining incremental progress for society is a better alternative than sitting by while the world burns around you.
Saving your support for an infallible leader who checks all your boxes, gains power and rescues society while somehow appeasing the majority and yet never compromising or screwing up something important, is a fantasy at best.
And to realize that none of the parties are here for you is a scary thought, and many people want to desperatley push it away for the safe and comfortable thought that you have a champion to fight for you and you’re not alone.
A government is composed of people. People are flawed. If you’re looking to flawed people to create your ideal society rather than strategizing how to do the best you can with what you have in front of you/working towards an improved future, you’re going to be spinning your wheels for all eternity waiting to be rescued.
Out of curiosity though, what is your ideal government/who is your ideal leader, worthy of your support? Who can you point to as an example of “that person/government that got it all right, and if we could just have a government or politicians more like them, everything would work itself out.”
Edit: Surely somebody must come to mind? Bc if not this whole post kinda seems like a lot of bullshit
They are humans like anyone else and they should never be placed on a pedestal or treated like they’re above criticism for being on your team.
Then stop doing that. You have to hold them on a pedestal to even consider them on your team, since their actions speak much louder than words
The both sides are the same argument denies the reality that voting in your best interest and gaining incremental progress for society is a better alternative than sitting by while the world burns around you.
You fundamentally misunderstand. What you are arguing for is sitting around while the world burns, while feeling like you did your part for merely voting. What I’m saying is that voting is not enough, especially when the people you have to vote for don’t actually want to make things better, and even under their control shit gets incrementally worse, not better. So sitting around and just handing your vote to the people who aren’t helping, especially when they know they’ll get your vote just for being slightly better than the other guy, is actually doing less than nothing. Politicians have to earn your vote, thats the foubdation of democracy. When politicians don’t have to earn your vote because you’ll vote for them by default, they’re not actually concerned with doing anything for the voters. That’s not Democracy.
Saving your support for an infallible leader who checks all your boxes, gains power and rescues society while somehow appeasing the majority and yet never compromising or screwing up something important, is a fantasy at best.
Thats a huge straw man. Just because all options are currently fucked and not worth standing with doesn’t mean you need an infalliable one to be acceptable. Just that the current ones are far below acceptable. “I don’t want to eat either entrees you brought me, because they’re both piles of dog shit, even if one is filled with razor blades.” “Nothing’s good enough for you man unless its a perfect 5 star 5 course meal and you’re gonna starve unless you eat the dog shit”. You see how absurd that thought process is? It comes from fear.
Not to mention that ELECTIONS AND POLITICIANS WILL NOT SAVE US. It’s not about voting in just the right way, we have to go out and demand, its the only way rights have EVER been won. Voting is just scratching the surface of political activisim, but its treated like the be all end all and people use it as an excuse to not do the real work.
government is composed of people. People are flawed. If you’re looking to flawed people to create your ideal society rather than strategizing how to do the best you can with what you have in front of you/working towards an improved future, you’re going to be spinning your wheels for all eternity waiting to be rescued.
This one is what you’re advocating for though, just voting for not only flawed people, but people working activley against you, all while sitting back like you did your part for checking a box on a ballot.
Out of curiosity though, what is your ideal government/who is your ideal leader, worthy of your support? Who can you point to as an example of “that person/government that got it all right, and if we could just have a government or politicians more like them, everything would work itself out.”
Edit: Surely somebody must come to mind? Bc if not this whole post kinda seems like a lot of bullshit
Yes your post does kinda seems like a lot of bullshit, but I’m still happy to take time to explain. There isn’t an example yet, we need to demand better, that’s my whole point. Merely voting in politicians and trusting them to fix everything isn’t going to work, there’s no winning that way. I dunno what goalpost shift you are attempting, but just beacuse I’m accuratley pointing out that our current system and represntation is far from actually working for the people doesn’t mean I have to have a fully flushed out and perfect example of an alternate for my critisms to be valid. That’s ironically what you were trying to accuse me of about “saving support for an infalliable leader”, but is actually your projection.
The republicans just funded a gestapo force which is rounding up brown people (some of them citizens) to take them to concentration camps where some and probably soon all of them are going to start dying.
Recently an 82 year old legal permanent resident originally from Chile where he fled the horror story we kick started decades ago was nabbed whilst replacing his lost green card and is now on deaths door in Gautama where we left him to die on the street whilst lying to his family so they couldn’t help him.
Please tell me this is the same as life under Obama.
Camps holding immigrants also existed under Obama 👍
To hold people who actually ought to be deported whilst giving them the benefit of legal counsel and ultimately returning them to the actual countries they came from and never for political reprisals.
No, lmao. Terrorizing immigrants is a bipartisan activity.
Oh, so there were no children in cages under Obama, now? No deportations of asylum seekers?
This kind of delusional nonsense is why nobody can stand liberals. Y’all think your carefully cultivated ignorance means things just didn’t happen even if there’s ample proof for them.
Obama focused on recent unauthorized border crossers and people who were actually criminals whilst allowing lawful claims of asylum, protecting dreamers and those who would face harm at home and benignly ignoring long term people contributing. During his last year they spent $6B
Trump
-
budgeted 200B this year alone to hire an army with the promise of imprisoning or deporting 25M people (more than actually exist)
-
Separated children whilst losing thousands of them to punish people for coming here with the intent that fear of losing their children might keep them out
-
Has armed gangs of anonymous thugs disappearing people off the streets with limited to zero due process.
-
States that due to an invasion we don’t need to give anyone due process
-
Has asserted in court that we can can send them abroad to areas where we know they will be tortured and killed
-
Has deported people to countries they are not from
-
Has deported people to a torturous hell hole based on false claims of criminality
-
When one person was singled out as innocent he had his justice department trump up charges to pretend the original claim was real
-
Is building the American Auschwitz
-
Has claimed that children of unlawful immigrants are not citizens despite the constitution states that he is the only authority his people should follow on the law not the courts
-
Punishes students for speaking out by yanking visas and imprisoning them in legal limbo
-
Has said that getting rid of legal immigrants who don’t belong here (non-whites) is the “next job”
-
Took out a full page ad in a major national paper calling for the lynching of black teens who turned out to be innocent
-
Discriminated against non-whites in both housing and employment
-
Has ice agents as we speak racial profiling and punishing people for being non-white see the 82 year old grandpa originally from Chile who was sent to die in Guatemala while keeping his family in the dark about his kidnapping. He a legal resident was kidnapped while at an office seeking a replacement green card for the one he had mislaid.
As only around 12M actual illegal immigrants actually exist and its impossible in any reasonable length of time to deport even that number in any sane length of time we are going to fill concentration camps with millions of people more people than we have ever incarcerated. An operation of the size they contemplate run merely as slipshod as the one he is already running will inevitably snag innumerable American citizens who shall be sent to the camps alongside their immigrant neighbors.
Many citizens and immigrants are going to die. Die of violence. Die of sickness. Die of privation.
Does ANYTHING above sound like life under Obama? But by all means keep pushing the both sides narrative.
-
Democrats
-
Retain marriage rights for gay couples.
-
Expand legality of recreational drugs.
-
Free food for schoolchildren.
-
Tax credits for families with children.
-
Subsidized for free childcare.
-
Expand electric car charging nationally.
-
Subsidize sustainable fuel sources.
-
Fact based education standards.
-
Stop racism in policing.
-
Expanded healthcare subsidies.
-
Preserve democracy.
Republicans
-
Being gay or trans should be illegal.
-
White supremacy is great!
-
Christianity as national religion.
-
Privatize the post office and weather service.
*Eliminate the EPA, Department of Education.
-
Defund IRS.
-
Disenfranchise nonwhites and women.
-
Antivax agenda.
-
Expand fossil fuel use.
-
Eliminate worker safety laws.
-
Eliminate collective bargaining and union rights.
-
Defunding science research.
-
Deregulate crypto.
-
No regulations on AI.
-
No recognition of child’s educational or bodily autonomy rights.
-
Eliminate hate crime laws except for straight white men.
-
End democracy, install fascist dictatorship.
But yeah, they are totally the same, right guys? RIGHT!?!
Fact based education standards.
Teaching a bunch of lies about American exceptionalism and how imperialism is actually good isn’t what I’d call “fact based”
Stop racism in policing
Right like how democrats in nearly all major cities increased police funding and almost none passed any meaningful reform.
Expanded healthcare subsidies
But don’t remotely consider universal healthcare
Preserve democracy
Preserve the status quo which I wouldn’t call a democracy. A democracy enacts the will of the people, democrats don’t even have a democratic primary for their own party.
Teaching a bunch of lies about American exceptionalism and how imperialism is actually good isn’t what I’d call “fact based”
That’s a right thing, not a left thing.
Right like how democrats in nearly all major cities increased police funding and almost none passed any meaningful reform.
A lot of left leaning places pushed consent decrees, for example:
https://www.chicagopolice.org/community-policing-group/consent-decree/
But don’t remotely consider universal healthcare
The list time Democrats had a filibuster-proof trifecta it was for about 2 months and they passed Obamacare. Since then Republicans have nullified about 40% of it.
Preserve the status quo which I wouldn’t call a democracy.
Except by definition it is a democracy. Like it or not, most people vote for the status quo.
Except by definition it is a democracy.
Barely.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Economist_Democracy_Index#List_by_country
Either you’re stupid or you’re lying.
Where’s the lie?
Literally fucking half of the shit you attribute to democrats.
Stop racism in policing.
Start here. This is a fucking lie and you’re practically a nazi for whitewashing them
Its not a lie. The legal progress towards this has come from Democrats. Yeah, it’s not enough and it’s been too long coming. Still, look at which states passed laws on chokeholds and which states passed laws allowing people to run over protesters, then tell me there is no difference in the parties.
You’re too easily impressed with the most superficial bullshit possible. The difference you highlighted is purely symbolic on both sides. As if cops are restrained by the law in the first place. Both parties have the exact same policy on policing and your ‘good guys’ are almost exclusively the ones in charge of the cities that actually run those police departments. All they do is give them more funding. And to confound people like you they engage in ‘liberal box checking’ where they ‘do something’ that changes absolutely nothing structurally. And then you turn around and defend these murderers like they’re the good guys. You’re a boob.
Not allowing choke holds isn’t superficial. Body cams aren’t superficial. They cut down on police use of force and citizen complaints. They also cost money. Better trained police costs money. Sending out social workers with police on domestic calls costs money ,and makes a huge difference in the quality of policing.
The only substantial reduction in policing cost is cutting back on the drug war and most left leaning states are doing that. (Reducing numbers of police would do it but most states have similar per capita number of police as Europe).
There is no doubt we have a long way to go on police reform, but to say there has been no progress simply isn’t true.
You’ve certainly whitewashed Dems quite a lot. You’re fundamentally not wrong though. As bad as the Dems are, and they are very bad, MAGA is undeniably worse. If we had some other electoral system, we could safely explore other options. But we don’t. We have FPTP, which makes it a binary choice between bad and worse.
And worse is just so, so much worse. That doesn’t make bad good, but it’s still a binary choice. You’d have to be evil or stupid to try to muddy the waters so that bad seems close enough to worse that people don’t feel the urgency of choosing bad to prevent worse.
The lesser evil choice is whichever hastens the collapse of your monstrous, genocidal empire
Dems can be convinced to try other election systems besides FPTP because they fundamentally believe in democracy. From my perspective, fixing things without violence is still an option with Dems. It isn’t with Republicans.
because they fundamentally believe in democracy.
Westerners will go on and on about how North Koreans are brainwashed to worship their leaders, then say shit like this.
fixing things without violence
Apparently doing the modern holocaust doesn’t’ count as “violence” to white supremacist BlueMAGA fascists.
Those memes are just contributing to the issue of young people skipping the elections, and then complaining about our leaders being stupid
Exactly! The fascists want people to think there’s no good choice. Apathy helps them take control.
both can be true at the same time.
Could be, but isn’t.
I wouldnt say a party of genocide supporters who love to kick progressives in the face and dont seem to give 2 shites what their voters want and need, and who have a wildly eroding base and 28% approval doesnt qualify as a:
good choice
But I guess if thats what you think I’m not going to change your mind.
There’s only two choices under the current system and the other one is kidnapping people to put in concentration camps right now. The only chance to change the current system without open armed conflict is the Democrats.
I think its time to start looking past democrats as possible agents of change. Justice delayed is justice denied, and the AIPAC centrists are firmly in control and not about to change anything. Rallying behind them just guarantees more loss, at the cost of enabling their corruption. Their base has already left to the point that they cant win anything. They have a 28% approval rating.
I’m sure repeatedly telling people they need to shut up and never criticize The Party will really reduce apathy.
Criticize all you want. Just recognize there is a difference between a less than ideal party and literal Nazis
Voters: “Please stop bombing children”, “Please stop backing a genocide”, “Please stop handing out our taxes to your rich friends”, “Please stop making healthcare the number one reason for bankruptcy”, “Please stop sending people to torture prisons”, “Please make minimum wage a livable wage”
“…less than ideal party…”
I think you might have a warped view of what “less than ideal” means
I hate it but, until March or April (depending on the poll) a majority of the country still supported Israel.
Democrats regularly raise taxes on the rich and Republicans regularly raise them. Democrats regularly push for prison reform and things like cashless bail. Republicans regularly push for harsher sentencing and reductions in per-prisoner spending. Compare a map of state minimum wages to their political alignment.
If you want Democrats to act on these things more, we have to get obstructionist Republicans out of office.
Well, Democrats are the less evil choice, but all this is peanuts compared to EU social standard, I see here in Spain often US tourists which thinks they are in the future, IN SPAIN, with the rights, services and the freedom people has. Even with the US Democrates, it’s compared like the EU fifty years ago.
The EU and the Democrats are both supporting the modern holocaust, neither of them are in a position to talk about “social standards.”
-
Don’t remember the last time the Democrats had military storming our streets and black bagging US residents en masse and deporting them to war zones like South Sudan or Libya despite those people having zero ties to those countries.
This reeks of fucking shitpost right-wing propaganda.
Edit: here come all the “but the US/CIA did all this fucked up stuff to other countries under Dems, too!”
JFC, the current “president” who is GOP literally yells about wanting to deport/arrest political opponents, censor TV personalities (e.g. Colbert, Fallon, etc), openly calls to suppress political opposition in voting, openly supports ignoring the courts when they interfere with his blatantly unconstitutional actions, etc etc .
Yes, the Dems aren’t fucking innocent, but to pretend they’re the same as a party that’s openly trying to “take back the Nazi word” is fucking insane.
The problem is that both parties are right wings, only one somewhat more extreme. Both defends the rights of big corporations, billonairs and less or nothing those of the rest of the people. Public services, labor rights and even basic rights, like health and education are a bad joke in the US and only available if you have money. Now with Trump it goes even worse.
They’re not the same. The Dems stand back and shake their fist/wring their hands when the Repubs have power and run roughshod over them. Then when the Dems have power they allow their efforts to be thwarted by the Repubs and gesture helplessly when in fact they could just push things through themselves.
Also the DNC is a malfunctioning toilet that costs elections, implying that they think it’s better to have a pro-establishment Repub in power than a Dem maverick.
Obama has the record for deportations
the Democrats had military storming our streets and black bagging US residents en masse
The Posse Comitatus Act is what generally prevents military from “black bagging US residents” and leaves that job to police.
Texas was the first state to allow for the national guard to assist in immigration efforts back in 2021. Democrats did nothing to stop, delay or prevent the expansion of those powers which were further pushed and nationalized in 2025.
The other loophole is invoking the insurrection act. While Biden did not involve it it was repeatedly threatened during the Gaza war protests, however the protests never got too riotous for the Dems to risk damaging their image and the local police were perfectly capable of documenting and black bagging people for it.
The cases of Kahlil and Mahdawi where Trump attended to deport individuals participating in those protests was made possible by the Immigration and Nationality Act of 1952. That specific bill was introduced by the Democrats, passed the Democratic majority House and Senate, Vetoed by Democratic president Truman before being overridden by the house/Senate.
You are correct that they are “not the same”, but stating that the shield of your enemy is your friend, just because it isn’t a sword is fucking insane.
war zones like South Sudan or Libya despite those people having zero ties to those countries.
Damn I wonder why Libya is like that!
You absolute ghouls literally don’t see foreigners as human
I dont think there is a lib alive who remembers the dems role in the destruction of Libya other than those directly involved in it.
True, most of them don’t remember as far back as last year
Off the top off my head the national guard during the george floyd protest that got called in by tim walz. Even trump was “impressed”
Yes, because those circumstances were completely the same as what’s going on now.
And that makes it acceptable?
People had literally burned down police stations and mass looting was occurring. Their police force was completely overrun. Don’t act like it was remotely the same thing.
I have several friends in Minneapolis that are very progressive. There were tons of people who were legit scared during periods of that for numerous reasons. It wasn’t “acceptable,” but what the fuck else do you do when law and order begins to completely breakdown?
It wasn’t “acceptable,” but what the fuck else do you do when law and order begins to completely breakdown?
if it isn’t acceptable it isn’t acceptable period. “this was the only way” literally means that you think it was acceptable.
I put it in quotes because I wasn’t meaning it to be so exact.
But whatever, I’m done arguing with enlightened centrists.
So you do think the kidnapping off the streets into unmarked vans by the military was somewhat acceptable when the democrats called for it? At least have the gut to come out and say it
Maybe reform the law and order that regularly lets Police murder citizens because they feel like it?
You know, how the protestors demanded before their peaceful protest got beaten up in order to escalate violence to deligitimize the demands and present the violent police as necessary.
I don’t disagree. I was simply providing context, which the other comment I responded to wasn’t addressing.
