Fox News caption: BY WINNING, DEMOCRATS ARE ACTUALLY LOSING
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He’s saying “good, let them enact their terrible policies and then everyone will see how bad they are, dooming them forever.”
This is a ballsy thing to say while Trump’s policies are currently lighting our future on fire, and when the Democratic platform consistently has more popular policies in it.
They are simply generating clips for the loyal segment of MAGA, nobody in power believes this going to last, they are just trying to stretch it on as long as possible until they can get a Trump 2.0 lined up that his base will follow.
All of this makes a lot more sense when you look at followings of people as resources or “political mana.” They are the stick that backs up the policy. They are the energy that drives the machine forward when bureaucracy says "slow down"or “you can’t do that.”
Every political figure has their own unique mana bar, their own special following of varying degrees of power, but Trump’s mana bar is different.
Trump’s base is not remotely the American majority, but they are the most mana-dense group out there. They are pure, raw, power to exert political will. Not as individuals, they’re stupider than soggy drywall as individuals. As a group, they have all the cards because they are:
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United no matter who is part of the group. No entry requirements other than loyalty.
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Guaranteed loyal. Trump can tell them to jump, they jump. Trump eats a baby on TV, they will wear “Eat the baby” T-shirts the next day. Trump says “storm the capitol” to prove to Congress and Senate that he has them on a leash and they even do that.
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Patriotic, they carry the flag. The left is largely anti-jingoism, but in the world-stage, flags have power. Patriotism is team-power. When we abandoned the flag we gave up a large swath of power.
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Armed and are violent. Again, you see this as anti-social and harmful, and on a community level it often is, but in the political landscape where there is no actual such thing as “law” having an armed group of loyalists is how nations have been built and preserved for literally thousands of years.
The longer Trump’s cabinet and administration can hold onto this group, the more they can do to pilfer the reserves and get their backers and sponsors filled with sweet, sweet sacks of cash in the form of deregulation and tax breaks.
The thing is, like with so many cases like this in history, it’s entirely constructed on the shaky foundation of one person’s “charm” and ability to hold onto their attention spans or lack thereof.
As soon as Trump keels over, which could literally be at any moment, this political mana will start to disperse. This is why you’re starting to see a lot more Vance on programs, a lot more Miller, a lot more of the generals and enablers each trying to secure some fleeting drop of that mana. I do not think people like Vance are going to be able to control even a fraction of the power that Trump commanded.
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Honestly, I am amenable to a different point, that by winning Democrats will learn nothing and just go back to “SEE?! WE’RE NOT HIM! That’s the only thing we have to do to win!”
I’m not sure I follow. You mean if they win next year? Because right now they should only be thinking “he won by a landslide… maybe what he’s doing can work.”
Trump didn’t win the popular vote by a landslide. It was close.
- Trump - 77,303,568 - 49.81%
- Harris - 75,019,230 - 48.34%
I think we’re talking about the man of the hour. Mamdani.
Ohhh sorry when you said “we’re not him” I thought you meant Zohran Mamdani, not Trump. The dem leadership are not thrilled about Mamdani and I though that was what you were referring to.
By losing republicans are actually losing.
Fuck, I really hope they don’t keep losing this way!!!
I’d be so fucking owned if they did!
If there is any loss, it’ll be like one poster said about the Dems failing to follow the Overton window left, but I think there’s another possible negative; the pendulum swing.
Without Obama, there’d be no trump1. Without Biden/Harris, there’d be no trump2. If we shift far enough left, I’m concerned how far the pendulum will swing right afterwards.
This is not to say Zohran Mamdani’s win wasn’t wonderful and probably the best thing to happen to this country in… probably decades. I’m just acutely aware that this country is probably going to continue to be divided and will keep doing its craziness.
Without Obama, there’d be no trump1.
Trump didn’t run against Obama. Obama would have mopped the floor with Trump if he had been allowed to be the Democratic candidate instead of Hillary Clinton. Hillary lost only because she is a poor campaigner who ignored the swing states and appealed too heavily to feminist ideology.
You misunderstand my point. The political leanings of the country as a whole are like a pendulum. The pendulum was swung when Obama was elected. This made all of the fragile racists afraid and so they wanted a strong man to replace Obama. Enter Trump: the perfect shit heel to fill the bill.
Pendulum swung back to the right; Trump was elected.
This is why Dems need to be the party of loud economic reform and quiet social advancement. We gotta stop ping-ponging, build a big tent for a new era. That means people staying on messaging and not attacking each other for differences of opinion. As long as we hold one progressive tenant, we’re Dems. It’s the words “we’re dems” that matter.
FYI, I think you mean tenet.
https://politicaldictionary.com/words/big-tent/ Have a nice weekend my weird vegan friend 😀
tenants usually pay rent
If we shift far enough left, I’m concerned how far the pendulum will swing right afterwards.
That sounds like an abusive relationship.
FTFY: That’s an abusive relationship.
And to be clear, this doesn’t mean we’re not going to push anyway. It needs to happen. My thinking is to keep a long few of things and be prepared for what’s next regardless.
Recently, I can’t remember who, but a republican operative said something very similar they were very worried about the leftward swing that was going to be the result of Trump’s insane policies.
My thinking is that if we were mindful and were aware that for example Obama’s presidency would make Trump’s presidency possible, not directly of course but in the pendulum sense that I’m referring to here, that we would probably have been able to do something more to stop it or at least we could have expected it and prepared in some way.
Really what we need here is some fucking ranked choice voting but who knows when the hell that’s going to happen?
hi
Heyyyy ;)
I didn’t know what to take from this interaction, other than maybe /u/tupalos is a shark.
Actually, I can’t argue this. It’s true, just probably not in the way Fox intended (I have no idea what they intended.)
Consider that if Mamdani holds up his promises, the old guard Democrats are going to look like the pathetic diet-Republicans that they are and always have been. If his electoral win sparks a wave farther left across the country, and the Overton Window shifts with it, then any Democrats that don’t adjust with the times will be outshined by more progressive candidates.
In that way, a “Democrat” win can result in many Democrats losing. But that’s a good thing, in my opinion.
This is exactly what the idealist types who chirp on about third parties and revolutions should actually want to see.
A slow invasion and replacement of old gaurd DNC members with new life.
Very unfortunately, its very difficult to deliver on the type of instant change people want to see on the federal level given the need for 3 brnaches of government and a super majority in the senate, but at bare minimum I hope this makes people who just don’t pay attention to politics realize that it turns out there isn’t actually a reason things can’t be better, and it turns out you can actually just tax rich people a little bit more to see a huuuuuge benefit to your everyday life.
Speaking personally, I am happy to see this change. As a longtime supporter of alternative voting systems, I am glad to see the ‘new guard’ agree and take steps toward it. I even trust them to do it honorably [generally]. I love that the new guard is more economic and future focused. Its great that we see some break from the neoliberal norm.
Of course instant gratification would be nice. But I’m not complaining. And -personally- I haven’t seen others complain it’s too slow and booooo im a misanthrope.
I think it’s better to phrase these opinions as questions, not accusations. Like: “3rd party revolutionary types: what do you think of these? Do you like them?”. I guarantee you can’t put us all in a box.
No! Electoralism can never work! Iterative progress is literally impossible and harm reduction is a pointless goal! It’s actually bad when good things happen because that means people are less willing to burn everything down and accept beautiful Anarchy overnight!
I think about how we read history books and it’s all simple “X happened, then Y happened,” even if the events are years apart. It makes it feel like change happens quickly, because we’re taught about it in retrospect.
It’s frustrating how so many people today seem to think, “Well, a revolution hasn’t happened, so I guess it never will.” Are we that accustomed to immediate gratification that we can’t recognize that such large shifts take time? I see things slowly unfold and think, “How awesome that we’re moving in this direction!” But there are inevitably multiple downers complaining that it’s not happening fast enough.
You realize that revolution in my sentence was referring to a lot of people dying and your quality of life going to shit for years, potentially even decades right?
Its by no means a desirable concept to anyone with empathy or brains. You may not even come out on the winning side. In fact, the way it looks now the good people would lose almost immediately.
Are we that accustomed to immediate gratification that we can’t recognize that such large shifts take time? I see things slowly unfold and think, “How awesome that we’re moving in this direction!” But there are inevitably multiple downers complaining that it’s not happening fast enough.
Perhaps though, I am misunderstanding your comment (very possible) and you’re talking about the non violent, productive type of change that I was also referring to?
Perhaps though, I am misunderstanding your comment (very possible) and you’re talking about the non violent, productive type of change that I was also referring to?
Of course! Violence would suck, and I’d hope it’d be a last resort. We’re talking about changes using the “ballot box” here, not the “ammo box.”
this is why you need preferential voting, if the party that wins can see they won but on the 2nd, 3rd etc preference they can look at the party platforms that were preferred and then know where they need to go in the future to steer their platform and gain more first preferences
That is how it works here in Australia
Preferential voting is absolutely not the way.
What you really want is proportional representation. This way you can just vote for exactly the party you want, and get exactly the representation amount proportional to the amount of people who voted for said party.
Some folding of the votes for parties too small to hold office could be reasonable, but I think a huge problem is any system that basically makes it impossible for anything other than 2 major parties to exist at a real player level.
Overton Window
I like the concept of the Overton Window (thanks for teaching it to me). However, I don’t think anything quite fits in any predictable threshold of acceptable ideas right now. Trump is such a black swan, it’s almost like we’re defining the window in real time… If things weren’t so horrible, it would be an exciting time to be alive.
I think the fact that people can easily find similarities to Trump’s bullshit in recently recorded history proves that he is not a black swan at all. Just run of the mill populist bullshit wrapped up in a fat orange package.
The fact that Americans thought " it could never happen here" is part of the problem.
It’s so nice to have people explain exactly what you’re thinking but can’t explain!
I love when that happens. :) I’m happy to help
Lemmy™, we’re happy to help.
The people are reshaping the democrat party. It’s slow, it’s in it’s infancy, but it is starting to happen. The bungie-cable on the Overton Window finally snapped and yanked the thing out of the garbage dump at the end of the scale, and people are dragging it back to a visible place and the establishment Dems are not happy about it. Because it means power structure and status-quo are no longer adequate and they are going to be out of the game.
This is why dems and Trump alike have unified to try to sabotage and invalidate Mamdani’s win, because a socialist becoming so popular sets a mandate. It flies in the face of narratives against socialism and true progressive populism. It sets a tone against big corporate money in politics, and it shows that grassroots community action can topple empires. A lot of polling institutions and old-guard half-baked pundits are slinking into the shadows right now after losing their ratings for predicting that New York and the country broadly were not going to elect anyone but Trump-loyal, authoritarian strongmen.
If you want any more proof of how Sir Mamdani and his band of knights have made the old Houses bend the knee, go watch Morning Joe and listen to Joe Fucking Scarborough praising Mamdani and socialism broadly. (Albiet tepidly, it’s still something I never thought I would see.)
they already succesfully colluded against BERNIE twice, and AOC to a lesser extent. the only reason they had AOc, is much like how the gop using mtg, and boebart as a lightning rod.
Democratic party.
Not to be that guy, but this one bothers me since “Democrat party” is purposely used by the right as a pejorative.
If the Netherlands can do it, so can the US voters.
C O P E
I think this headline is aimed for the orange toddler in the white house, since this is his favourite kids channel on TV…now he’s happy again and ready with more Tarrifs
Holy crap, it’s real. Link. I thought this must be satire.
Her argument is that more people will move to red states as a result. I hate to break it to her, but increased population density is almost guaranteed to make states turn blue.
So by winning, Democrats are actually losing, making red states turn blue, so Democrats are winning. Suck it, commies!
Moving from blue to red again was a shock, I sure miss the quality of public services. This place is falling apart unless you live in the richest suburbs.
Moving from red to blue was a shock. Did you know blue states will actually attempt to improve citizens lives?
I live in Bumfuck, WV. Quite possibly the stupidest state in the Union. Our elected representation perfectly encapsulates the constituents of the state. Moronic, incompetent, and completely unwilling to incite change for a more prosperous future.
I fucking hate it here. I can’t wait to be able to move.
Once upon a time West Virginia was Woke Virginia
they kept MANCHIN around in the hopes of shoring up COAL futures. its shouldved died decades ago.
I moved from blue to purple, then red, then redder. It’s been an adventure.
I went Michigan, Illinois, Texas, Minnesota, Texas. That last jump was a hard transition. Frankly, I hope we get invaded by Mexico because there’s no other way to fix the state government at this point.
you can always move to mexico? i known people who moved mexico during my ccollege years. after a semester in cc , he stayed in mexico after that. thailands another option.
I am ethnically Italian. I am culturally San Diegan, aka Mexican. I would have no trouble adjusting.
Hell in the 60’s Hollywood you were Mexican.
But like … Why would you do that?
Chasing a lower cost of living
And how has that worked out for you?
Pretty well other than the people that post my address when I piss them them off for calling out their hate speech.
Its a viable strategy.
Get a career going in a blue state when you’ve got supports to help you make it.
Make a good amount of money, or get a decent wage/salary.
Then transfer that all to a lower cost area to rest on your laurels and skip out on having to pay into support for the next generation.
Its a perfectly conservative thing to do, pulling up the ladder after you’ve succeeded with it.
I hear New Mexico is beautiful and cheap!
I hear Mexico is also beautiful and cheaper
deleted by creator
the people moving to red are usually republicans, not many of them are wealthy, they moved based on vibes, and covid.
Preach brother. Had no idea, just wanted to move. Now I’m counting the days to get out of here. More money, better public services, cleaner, and COL isn’t much of an argument at this point. Although it wasn’t a big deal anyway. Rent caught up quick and the only perk is a front yard and backyard I don’t use except to walk the dog. Aside from that, it’s clear how far a few more dollars for state taxes go. Good learning experience. Loved the people, but no thanks to climate. Political and physical.
I moved from very blue to just kinda blue.
By winning they make MAGA folks go away? Sounds like double winning to me…
Isn’t it conservatives that are leaving blue states? I know urban centers tend to be more left leaning but I don’t think those people will quickly change their views just from moving. Maybe their kids?
Independent of left and right, a higher population density naturally results in increased support for public services, which the right has decided to firmly establish themselves as being against.
Plus there’s the added benefit of prejudice and racism decreasing in a more diverse community. (at least on a personal level)
which the RIGHT ALSO is the largest recipient of WELFARE.
She doesn’t specifically mention conservatives moving. Her argument seemed to be that everyone will flee the socialist hellscape.
which are often conservatives, Barring financial reasons, some left/dems to leave HCOL blue states like cali, but they are white so they will do fine in texas. not so much for POCs/lgbtq+ people.
My dad moved from California to Columbia, Missouri about a decade ago. No complaints other than the weather, but his district is posh and next to the campus.
Sounds like a college town, so I imagine it’s not at all indicative of the rest of the state, politically
Columbia has one huge university and two good sized colleges. As far as Missouri goes, it’s probably the most liberal city. Take a drive for 10 minutes in any direction though and the atmosphere definitely changes.
I’ve been to Columbia before. Supremely bizarre drive from St Louis to the campus. With any luck that’ll be my first and only time in Missouri
You get a lot of retirees who want to move South. Maybe they have family there, or maybe they just want nicer weather.
A number of states specifically structured their tax policies to be super friendly to retirees, so some ran the numbers and said “oh I can afford to sell my expensive house up north, move south and buy a better/similar house for less and pay less taxes as I withdraw my retirement money? Also I don’t have to deal with winters anymore?! Sign me up!” And since they don’t have to worry about job availability they can live basically anywhere that has the amenities they want and fits their budget, thus the American south became a gigantic retirement community
arnt they still concentrated in BLUE counties in the south though. i had anext door neighbor that retired, financially they saw texas as a retirement state, so they moved there, Houston i believe, plus they are also white, and pretty much getting annoyed with non-whites(they were pretty subtle about and not express it openly)
See the one thing to remember is that places can be majority one party, but if consistently 60% of voter vote for one party that still means that 40% of the voters vote differently. There’s tons of moderates and Republicans in very blue areas and there’s tons of moderates and Democrats in red areas. Some of these retirees might be moderates or hold different opinions from where they live. They may even simply be folks who aren’t plugged into politics and don’t really know or care that much what their neighbors’ political opinions are.
I’m overgeneralizing here, but retirees don’t work (especially not highly physical jobs that badly require workers rights reform. They might do some independent contracting for the last place they worked as a side gig though!) they don’t go to school, they don’t have much debt with their home, vehicles and student loans all paid off long ago, they don’t rent, they aren’t first time home buyers, they aren’t raising a family and struggling with the cost of daycare. Retirees are basically just trust fund babies except they spent the last 40 years building their own trust fund. And as people are living longer healthier lives, we’re getting retirees who have been retired for 20+ years and are even further disconnected from the needs of those who are still working and raising families
My point is, depending on the person, politics probably isn’t a big deal to them when they select a low cost of living area to retire to. And in the south there’s tons of 55+ communities and communities intended for retirees that are conveniently built just outside of metro areas to reduce tax burden (because taxes are generally the biggest cost for retirees!)
also I’m pretty sure smaller stuff that’s not for the us president is not counted just purely per vote but more on winning districts so just having more conservatives collected in one area would only mean that a presumably an already very red area gets redder without doing anything more
I think she’s totally right republicans, move to Alabama and Florida. You’ll be safe there.
Have socialist policies lifted people out of poverty in Venezuela?
Perhaps if the US lifted its sanctions on Venezuela, maybe they’d find out.
Kind of the constant history of socialism. It’s almost the same as the arguement against being LGBT.
See being LGBT is bad, I can prove it, look at the suicide rates of LGBT people?
Isn’t that because you are bullying them?
Yeah, but I wouldn’t bully them if they were straight, so that proves being LGBT is bad for your health!
They really can’t stop talking about Venezuela, it’s concerning.
More than just talking, they’re openly murdering them regularly
They want to fuck Venezuela but don’t have the emotional maturity to ask them out on a date.
Cope is all they got.
the commies are also saying this
yes, we should lose that way more.
Leftists and liberals: looks at world - this needs to be better, let’s improve it.
Right and conservatives: looks at leftists and liberals - I don’t care how or why, but we need to make everybody suffer.
i had to suffer so everyone must suffer
Not everybody, just the people who are already suffering
DEFINITELY not the rich. The rich only deserve to get richer. Don’t matter that people like bozos and musk have more money than anyone could ever spend, they need moar moneyz
The worst thing that could ever happen is rich people having to be a little less rich. So sad
that is … quite a headline. impressive.
War is peace
Freedom is slavery
Ignorance is strengthWe have always been at war with Eastasia
*Eurasia.
Someone contact Records Department. Fetus is an unperson.
east asia too.
Don’t believe your eyes, don’t listen to your ears, believe the party above all else
All hail the Cheeto! All hail the Cheeto! All hail the Cheeto!
I miss the Cheeto cheetah. I mean, he’s still on Cheeto packages but I can’t remember the last time I heard him talk about cheese.
