It’s so weird that the left has been put into two very odd boxes, “libs” and “tankies”. I see so much, valid IMO, hate for both them here but also the only ones ever mentioned.
It feels like the American conservatives actually managed to succeed at doing something, and very well so, with this as I really doubt this would have happened naturally.
It’s really fucked up, and I’m a random Swede and this shit has soured even our own forums, online and IRL discussions etc.
The word liberal has become a blade with no handle that everyone in the world holds differently when they stab at their enemy. Basic Yanks use it wrong, tankies use it as a slur against basically everyone, and pretty much only left-coms and economists use it mostly the same way, but they don’t see eye to eye on much else.
I have tried to simply drop it from my discourse since it has so many unintended connotations that can cloud your meaning.
Of course, but many socialists here use the classic definition of a liberal. Which is annoying. Basically you have to translate into “neoliberal” when they say it. And yeah it’s pretty stupid, but they don’t want to accept the “rebranding” the neoliberals have managed to pull off.
Neoliberalism can be defined as the sincere moral belief in inequality based on money or wealth or class. Like if you are poor, your children should get worse food and education. Neoliberals believe this is morally correct. Neoliberals are not on the left, but are right wing. There are many who identify as leftists or liberals who accept neoliberal ideology because they simply can’t imagine radical change. There are many thought terminating brainworms in their heads.
This also explains why it’s so easy for neoliberals to transition to fascism. Fascism can be defined as the sincere moral belief in inequality - based on identity like ethnicity or gender. It’s just a small hop. And the US foreign policy has been outright fascist for many decades anyway. Biden is a fascist. Hillary is a fascist. Obama is “just” a neoliberal, but fuck him too.
I have found communists here who want to rehabilitate Stalin for some insane reason. I haven’t found a single “Tankie” who thinks Russia is still socialist or who are particularly happy with the human right issues or corruption in China, but still support them because they understand realpolitik. To me it seems the divide and hate overwhelmingly comes from the (non neo) liberals. Like OP is pure hatewagoning propaganda. Nobody “likes” seeing protesters shot.
Of course American conservatives can succeed, they have the entire US billionaire class supporting them. They have been succeeding for decades, even when a Dem president has been in office they have steadily pushed US policy further right.
But you hear critique of the left more than we critique the right here because why would I bother arguing with someone who has an ideology and worldview completely irreconcilable to mine?
What the fuck is a tankie? Is it whatever nonsense is a neoliberal? What the fuck is a neoliberal? At this point, these points read like stupid trying to make sense of liberal, conservative, and libertarian? Like, the fuck?
It’s so weird that the left has been put into two very odd boxes, “libs” and “tankies”. I see so much, valid IMO, hate for both them here but also the only ones ever mentioned. It feels like the American conservatives actually managed to succeed at doing something, and very well so, with this as I really doubt this would have happened naturally. It’s really fucked up, and I’m a random Swede and this shit has soured even our own forums, online and IRL discussions etc.
Liberals are not left wing lol. You only have right leaning parties in the US.
Tankies themselves use liberal as an insult. There’s definitely a difference between the two.
Using globally recognized definitions is an insult only because Americans have twisted the meaning.
The word liberal has become a blade with no handle that everyone in the world holds differently when they stab at their enemy. Basic Yanks use it wrong, tankies use it as a slur against basically everyone, and pretty much only left-coms and economists use it mostly the same way, but they don’t see eye to eye on much else.
I have tried to simply drop it from my discourse since it has so many unintended connotations that can cloud your meaning.
Of course, but many socialists here use the classic definition of a liberal. Which is annoying. Basically you have to translate into “neoliberal” when they say it. And yeah it’s pretty stupid, but they don’t want to accept the “rebranding” the neoliberals have managed to pull off.
Neoliberalism can be defined as the sincere moral belief in inequality based on money or wealth or class. Like if you are poor, your children should get worse food and education. Neoliberals believe this is morally correct. Neoliberals are not on the left, but are right wing. There are many who identify as leftists or liberals who accept neoliberal ideology because they simply can’t imagine radical change. There are many thought terminating brainworms in their heads.
This also explains why it’s so easy for neoliberals to transition to fascism. Fascism can be defined as the sincere moral belief in inequality - based on identity like ethnicity or gender. It’s just a small hop. And the US foreign policy has been outright fascist for many decades anyway. Biden is a fascist. Hillary is a fascist. Obama is “just” a neoliberal, but fuck him too.
I have found communists here who want to rehabilitate Stalin for some insane reason. I haven’t found a single “Tankie” who thinks Russia is still socialist or who are particularly happy with the human right issues or corruption in China, but still support them because they understand realpolitik. To me it seems the divide and hate overwhelmingly comes from the (non neo) liberals. Like OP is pure hatewagoning propaganda. Nobody “likes” seeing protesters shot.
Of course American conservatives can succeed, they have the entire US billionaire class supporting them. They have been succeeding for decades, even when a Dem president has been in office they have steadily pushed US policy further right.
But you hear critique of the left more than we critique the right here because why would I bother arguing with someone who has an ideology and worldview completely irreconcilable to mine?
libs are not part of the left, please
Wait I thought liberals were on board with capitalism? In what sense are they left wing?
You can have a mixed economy with the state regulating to avoid market failures.
You mean neo liberal which is right wing economically.
No, I’m pretty sure I mean liberal. Like Adam Smith type shit.
What the fuck is a tankie? Is it whatever nonsense is a neoliberal? What the fuck is a neoliberal? At this point, these points read like stupid trying to make sense of liberal, conservative, and libertarian? Like, the fuck?