I still like natelies take that tankiess are actually just fundamentalist Christian’s with the serial numbers filled off
There are legit ‘leftists’ who behave this way, I’ve met them.
That being said there 100% are Active Measures that target leftist and progressive/liberal groups to divide them just as they target right wing groups.
And people fall for that shit.
tankies are just trolls that like to ragebait both sides
this page is a disaster
It’s political memes. Things are generally disastrous right now.
Given I’m new to lemmy, I learned the difference between some of the instances. Specifically lemmy.ml 🙃.
“Nah man, someone with good policy but they’re caucusing as a democrat? Don’t vote for them, they’re not calling for seizure of private property, they’re all scams!”
So you want me…to vote for the conservative? Like, wut?
“Start your own revolution!”
Uh huh. I’m ready for the call, but just as Lenin himself argued, a single person like myself won’t help the people dying right now that way…the first person killed wouldn’t be a billionaire, it’d more likely be myself, friends, family, or neighbors given the state’s monopoly on violence.
They told me to read State and Revolution. They weren’t expecting me to have already read it 🙃
I fucking love this graphic
What the fuck is a tankie?
Someone who doesn’t consider atrocities committed by dictatorships or totalitarians in the name of “communism” as real or a problem.
So, holocaust deniers too.
I’m not sure what you mean by that, but anyone who denies the holocaust or other genocides are bad people and should be resisted.
That includes the genocide of Native Americans, Armenians, Palestinians/Gazaians(?), the Rohingya people, the Ukrainian people, Darfur, the Hutis, Bosnians, Cambodians, Tartars/Baltic Nations/Chechans/etc… under soviet imperialism, etc…
NONE of these are acceptable and fuck anyone who whitewashes these because they think it was necessary for their ideology
According to .world anyone to the left of Reagan.
No. That is inaccurate.
Tankies think that anyone trying to fix the system instead of burning it down is a fascist.
I mean the system does need to be burned down. You can’t fix a machine that’s doing exactly what it was designed to do. You tear it down, maybe repurpose some of the parts, and build a different machine that doesn’t do what the previous one did.
Despite how relatively rough it is now it’s not anywhere near as bad as it was in the “golden age” of the 50’s or any of the times monarchs have lost their heads. If the “burn it down” crowd can’t work with others then they’re not the people you want building a new nation.
We literally have worse wealth inequality than in 1700s France.
I work with others just fine. I do several different community volunteer projects every weekend, educate anyone willing to listen on how fucked everything is and how supporting any part of the uniparty will only continue to make things worse, join book clubs run by socialists, and help spread the word of actually good candidates at every level of government that run on third party platforms. This is how you begin the work to destroy and repurpose the machine.
The system that killed a hundred million Native Americans, did hundreds of years of African slavery, initiated countless illegal wars of aggression which resulted in tens of millions of civilian deaths, and is now actively burning the planet to a crisp? That’s the system you’re gonna fix?
Yeah, because when the “burn it all down” crowd tried forming their own government to keep their slaves we had a war over it and they lost.
I’m sure you’re very proud that you only did slavery for the majority of your country’s existence, and not all of it.
“trying to fix” = voting for genocidal imperialist capitalist political parties
Unless the system™ resides in a country that historically opposes the USA
Forgive me for using AI to make a summary but I don’t have the energy to write up a long winded explanation on it
A tankie is usually a slang term for someone on the far left who defends or excuses authoritarian communist governments, especially the Soviet Union, Maoist China, or similar states.
The name comes from people in Western communist parties who supported the Soviet Union sending tanks into places like Hungary in 1956 and Czechoslovakia in 1968 to crush uprisings. “Tankie” started as an insult from other leftists who thought that support was indefensible.
The meme is joking about how some tankies can end up with political positions that don’t fit neatly on the normal left-right spectrum. For example, they might:
Oppose capitalism (far left).
Defend highly centralized states and strongman rulers.
Support nationalism in certain countries.
Excuse military invasions if done by states they like.
Agree with parts of the far right on issues such as anti-Westernism or hostility toward liberal democracy.
So the “stethoscope” shape is saying:
Far left and far right are where you’d expect them to be, but tankies somehow wandered off the chart into their own weird political dimension.
It’s a joke, not a serious political model, but it resonates because many people feel that hardline authoritarian communists often end up taking positions that seem disconnected from the usual left-right divide.
No, I won’t forgive that, and I certainly ain’t reading it.
You could have saved us all the use of AI and the paragraph answering the moron. Behold:
tankies are the original left wing
Is it because you can’t read?
netanyahu approves this
They told me to read State and Revolution. They weren’t expecting me to have already read it 🙃
Good, but what about Imperialism, the Highest Stage of Capitalism?
I’d love to see a link showing this sentiment. I’ve literally never seen anyone say this lmao.
I guess you’re simply too lazy to look through my comments?
https://lemmy.ml/comment/26044065
Stop voting dems. They’re a scam. Abortion rights fell under biden, because they didn’t do anything. Literally nothing. Trump hit the ground running with the border camps thanks to the dems laying the ground work. There never was any meaningful student loan relief. The palestinian genocide went into overdrive with full-throated backing of the dems. Vote PSL. Organize with actual leftists. There is only one alternative to capitalism and the only way to get there is via a violent revolution that begins with you.
Are you drunk? Nowhere in that comment is anyone saying to vote conservative. In fact, they advocate for PSL. I don’t know if you know this, but PSL is leftwing.
tankies are what you call, conservatives that never vote. conservatives large majority outvote left leaning groups, with alittle help of voter suppression.
Maybe if you have no political understanding whatsoever!
so lenin told you to vote for imperialist genocidal pedophile party
Apparently the ongoing genocide in Palestine would be so much worse now under the evil witch Kamala Harris. There was no other choice but to enable Trump.
Kamala “most lethal military in the world” Harris? Kamala “I wouldn’t have done anything differently than Biden” Harris? Hmmmm…
thats strawman but uniroincally more civilians died under biden administration
I’ve learned you do the same thing with tankies as you do MAGAts if they start to argue.
Suck their dicks and ask them to hit you harder?
Nah, start by laughing at clowns who can only view the world through a lens of dogma and faith, end by receiving death threats
I’ve never received death threats for my political views. Maybe it’s time for some self reflection.
Tankies are so weird. I’m sure some of them are true believers, but I get the feeling most of them just want to watch the western world burn and kinda don’t care how it happens.
Well, and then there’s the fact that posts like this always get swarmed by users from .ml and other similar instances (around the time that the eastern hemisphere wakes up) with the message “both sides bad”
Tankies are weird because it’s mostly genuinely good ideas of justice and fairness tied to a century old wagon full of some of the worst ideas the world has ever seen. Eventually they get consumed by the bad actor propaganda because of this.
Socialism already had a very successful rebrand but being happy with your house and EV with a social safety net in northern europe it’s just too boring for them. Not enough tanks and iconography I guess.
I get the feeling most of them just want to watch the western world burn and kinda don’t care how it happen
And if you aren’t their specific brand of tank you can burn too.
“Both sides bad” is a litmus test. If someone says it unironically it lets me know what IQ range they fall within.
America is bad. Capitalism is bad. American capitalism is a cancer that’s literally destroying the world to enrich 1000 of the worst people you’ve ever heard of. What range do I fall in?
It seems like a lot of them honestly think that if a liar says something, it must be a lie. They realized that our government lies, and immediately flipped everything they thought they knew to the opposite of what they thought it was.
“The US, which suppresses its own citizens, said that Russia, China, and North Korea suppress their own citizens? That must mean they’re awesome! Ignore personal accounts from people who live or escaped from there, if the US says it’s bad, it must be good, no question!”
Like, yeah, both sides are bad. Suppressing your citizens is bad. We need to be rising up as citizens across the world to take the power back from all dictatorial governments everywhere, not arguing about which one is the worst as if that makes the others better.
I’m sure there’s also a population of tankies that don’t understand truly what they are saying and are just vaguely repeating talking points from their favorite podcaster/streamer.
It would certainly explain why every argument with a tankie fits into 1 of about 6 of the same arguments with slightly different flavor.
That’s definitely the case with my ex. He used to parrot the “Russia had to invade Ukraine because NATO! It was self defence!” and I’m pretty sure he was just parroting whatever he heard on Joe Rogan and the other far right rabbit holes that led him to.
Do you know how many people of Russian descent the Ukrainian government murdered prior to Russia invading?
Well at least he’s your ex.
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Sounds like he was a fascist, not a tankie.
I don’t think you know what a tankie is.
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The west bad, Russia less bad. I don’t see how this is controversial. How many unjustifiable wars and how many dead civilians has the west produced in the last 75 years?
The person you are describing is a supporter of fascism, which is the opposite of a “tankie”, a far-left view, but both might approve of Russia.
“tankies support fascism”
thats a new one
What 0 political education does to a motherfucker, lol.
Wayyyyyy too many young-adults tune into Hasan and believe he makes sense as he panders to his twitch chat for profit. I’m more and more convinced that this is Russo/China infiltration attempting to wedge-drive the left and distort reality. There are people on here who will complain about US imperialism on the daily but then turn a complete blind eye to Chinese or Russian atrocities conveniently. One can only conclude they’re spreading the kool-aid, or chugging it.
Lmfao
Lmao, you seriously think libs are somehow on left? democrats are literally a centrist to center right party in any sane country and also they are extremely pro capitalist (and so does its 90% base), what is left about that? and stop blaming china and russia for your own incompetence
It would certainly explain why every argument with a tankie fits into 1 of about 6 of the same arguments with slightly different flavor.
Butwhatabout <insert something shitty the US has done that nobody has condoned or even mentioned during the current discussion about China while completely ignoring the discussion about things China is doing>? You don’t seem to have any problem with that, huh?
I’m sure there’s also a population of tankies that don’t understand truly what they are saying and are just vaguely repeating talking points from their favorite podcaster/streamer.
I fee like some of them are neurodivergent and don’t realise it. I was listening to an interview of a former neo-Nazi and he mentioned many of those who get sucked in by the far-right are very likely to be undiagnosed autistic. I imagine the same happening with the far-left tankie circles, given the childish statements they constantly make and the perpetual online presence.
This is not an attack on neurodivergent folks by the way, and sorry if my comment sounds like I rub anyone the wrong way, but it is quite common for any extremist movements to try to recruit vulnerable people in some capacity, either those who are emotionally or mentally vulnerable, or both.
“they must have mental problems”
How woke of you.
Well, you tell me.
I’ll tell you that when a liberal is scratched, a fascist bleeds.
The thing about us neurodivergent people is that we’re people, which means we’re as vulnerable as any other group. Some might be more vulnerable than non-neurodivergent individuals others might be less. There is a broad spectrum of neurodivergence. I happen to be one of the less vulnerable. My autism predisposed me to questioning and trying to truly understand what I hear and why.
Your comment did rub me the wrong way because to say that we neurodivergent folk are particularly vulnerable to these sorts of things (extremism) is belittling. I know you tried to mean well but that is simply what it is. We are a broad spectrum of people. Same as you.
yes, only libs are the enlightened one.
Well, when you categorize everyone on the planet who isn’t an ML as a liberal, that cuts down on the options.
anarchists are liberals anyways
you need to go back and take some politics class, anarchists are not politcally aligned to one party or any group for the most part.
because they do nothing and possess no threat to bourgeosie state apparatus.
Exactly my point. If you categorize the vast majority of people as liberals, any given subset of people is fairly likely to be entirely contained within that majority.
Depending on the time of the day and mood, they call anyone fascists instead.
It’s like they didn’t even bother trying to grasp what you said
in the current system most active political people are liberals, from the MAGAts to wokechuds to anraKKKidies
I mean, I am more on the anarchistic/libertarian side of communism and certainly no ML nut even I think that most self proclaimed anarchists are cosplaying libs. Where I live there are two kinds of anarchists, the ones that just take drugs instead of doing any organising and the ones that actually organise and form alliances with generally likeminded groups. Sadly the second kind is vastly outnumbered by the first.
You’ve stumbled upon a dichotomy that exists in every ideology: those who have the skills, resources, and will to organize, and those who don’t. Most MLs don’t organize either, nor most neoliberals, or monarchists, or any other group. Organizing is difficult and time-consuming. An awful lot of people in this late capitalist hellscape have their hands full just trying to survive.
because the first kind is real anarchism i.e. armchair resistance which does not threaten the state or the capitalist system
I’m with them on the US at least, it has had way too much power to just trample anyone it feels like. Obviously not worth all the effects from what Trump has done but…
I struggle to understand how the collapse of the United States would do anything but make life worse for literally everyone on the planet for decades if not longer.
You want to make things better? Change the system from within slowly. You want to accidentally make things much much worse? Burn a system down and watch what emerges be horrible beyond what you could imagine.
Lmao, this reads like a CIA psyop. Death to the American experiment. You guys can try again with a new constitution, my advice is to leave the slavery out this time.
Why would it automatically be “horrible beyond what you could imagine”? I have watched the US murder thousands of people through illegal wars, poison the entire planet, and now for years the US has supported an open genocide in Gaza, not to mention previous genocidal regimes propped up by the US.
The things I have seen are already literally more horrible than I could have imagined. I wouldn’t imagine they would send a Tomahawk missile into a crowded elementary school, and especially wouldn’t imagine they would hit it two more times, ensuring nearly every young girl in a small town was killed. I wouldn’t have imagined these things years ago except maybe from a country like Nazi Germany. But I’ve seen it, and there is ample evidence, and we know that there is more that they do in the shadows that we might never know. Tell me why we shouldn’t stop it as quickly as possible? What would you say to the parents of these children? People have been pushing for change slowly and steadily for the entire history of the US and we are still a bloodthirsty, heartless monster, imprisoning more people than have ever been held in history.
I have watcheed the US murder thousands of people through illegal wars
Millions.Take Vietnam and the completely illegal bombing of Cambodia and Laos alone, and you’re already at millions.
Fuck it, throw Korea in there and we’re at tens of millions.
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Sure, let’s take a government that controls tens of thousands of nuclear weapons and just make it cease to function. Who gets them? Who decides if they stay in their silos? Are they turned on regional rivals first, or does someone who wants a particular ethnic group to disappear send some to one part of the world?
Just think for a second. It can always get worse. Billions.
We are in the middle of a historic mass extinction event because of the global ecocide commited by the wealthy elite. We will ALL suffer immensely and billions will die if nothing is done to stop them. Saying we can’t do anything because it will just get worse is a position only the very privileged could take, able to ignore the massive bloodshed happening every day.
Sure the nazis are killing millions, but do we really need to take military action? Who will take up the power vacuum? It can always get worse. Billions. With a B. Shocked yet? Yeah, that’s what I thought.
I sort of agree with you but the chance for that is over. I can’t come up with a single way to change anything slowly at this point. We’ve had 46 years of pillaging the working class and now we’re about to get nuked by an illegal IPO during the biggest bubble we’ve ever seen. Please help me understand how we’ll have the option to change anything once Palantir rolls out the robot dogs next year.
- Stop consuming cynical media that feeds on your anxiety for engagement
- Go outside and connect with your neighbors
- Don’t complain about things being impossible to fix online until you’ve done steps 1 and 2
I’ve attempted to connect with my neighbors. They all worship Trump and are currently flying homophobic flags cause they hate that it’s pride month.
Go outside and connect with your neighbors
RIP autistic people
You’re trying to frame me as someone who is being ableist, but you’re the one who’s saying autistic people can’t go outside and talk to people.
I think they can, and it might be difficult, but it’s worth it.
Idk I’ve tried that a lot in the past and have had mostly bad results
When was the last time a system remotely this bad was actually redeemed slowly? The Mongols were defeated by disease, storms, and violence; the Nazis were defeated by extreme violence; the Japanese Empire was defeated by extreme violence; the French monarchy and Napoleon were defeated by extreme violence; the Russian monarchy was defeated by extreme violence.
Things get worse before they get better with a revolution, but they can get better. That isn’t to say that we should decline to reduce harm inside the current system, but it seems naive to expect the current system to stop being terrible. Harm reduction is a temporary measure.
Let’s go with one of your examples, and I think the quintessential one: France, 1792. The monarchy is crumbling. It’s terrible. Let’s burn it all down. Yay! The monarchy is over!
Wait, what now? War with Austria for no reason? Executing tons of nonviolent and political prisoners? Terror as a form of government (that killed more peasants than aristocrats)? Coups and counter-coups and then Napoleon who plunges Europe into basically the zeroth world war. Millions die. Napoleon is eventually defeated, twice.
What came after? A slightly reformed (1814), and then slightly more reformed (1830), Bourbon monarchy. Boy, I bet the third estate might have preferred to get to that kinda boring reformed era a little faster and without all the dead people. (I guess I don’t blame the third estate, I blame Danton. But still.)
And then they overthrew that monarchy, had a second republic for four years, Napoleon III declared himself emperor, the empire collapsed, and they had a third republic, which was overthrown by the Nazis, and then a fourth republic after the Nazis lost, which only lasted another twelve years before they changed enough laws to call it #5.
Boy, I bet they would have preferred to skip ahead to overthrowing the monarchs indefinitely.
And how the absolute fuck do you propose they could have reformed a monarchy that responded to protests with violence? Even the French don’t overthrow their government without giving it a chance to respond to their demands.
It’s like suggesting that a union get concessions without striking. Sure, they’d like to, but if the company refuses to negotiate, there’s only one (legal) path forward.
The third estate had effectively politically overthrown the old regime by like day five of the estates general. There would still be a king, but the clergy-nobility-commons divide was gone and there would be representative government. Not enough, obviously, but a step in the right direction.
Denton decided the people he didn’t like needed to die and that sent things spinning out toward murderville for everyone, including eventually himself. Basically everyone who would have built upon those small steps fled the country or were murdered. Many of them were shitheads, yes. But I think France would have been better off without the head-choppy parts of the revolution.
That doesn’t seem compatible with the summaries I’ve found. I’m not an expert by any means, but it looks like the constitutional monarchy you mentioned was repeatedly sabotaged by Louis XVI until he was violently deposed. You can argue against his beheading the following January all you like, but deposing him was not a change from within, it was a violent revolution. They stormed the palace and threw him in jail.
https://theanarchistlibrary.org/library/petr-kropotkin-the-great-french-revolution-1789-1793#toc27
“Tear it all down” is for weak minded imbeciles who get frustrated trying to confront issues and think of practical resolutions.
No, it’s for people outside the relative bubble of safety you enjoy in the imperial core. Your country has been on the wrong side of every war it’s fought since WWII, resulting in the deaths of tens of millions of innocent civilians. You’ve had 80 years to get your shit together, you don’t get unlimited chances. Death to America.
I find “tear it all down” people hilarious. Like… yea, ok, we’ll tear it all down. And who’s gonna rebuild after? You and your keyboard?
revolutionaries will do it, just like the bolsheviks did.
The Bolsheviks relied on existing structures, functionaries and specialists because they HAD to. Nothing else was possible, they existed in the real world in the midst of a civil war, not some childish fantasy.
Trotsky aggressively recruited Tsarist military officers, many of which served without really aligning with Bolshevism.
And just a few other facts to add: world war, civil war, famine, coercion, mass violence, dependemce on inherited infrastructure and harsh repression. That’s what you want for the US? Because real people, the ones not playing make believe on the internet, do not.
I never denied that revolutionaries in the US shouldnt utilize already existing state apparatus, do you even understand what collapsing means?
Change requires sacrifices, but american left thinks americans need to babysat into revolution, america is already inflicting civil war, famine, coercion, mass violence and harsh repression on many countries.
you should study history instead of bullshit. only thing you got right in your profile is wannabe
I am more aware about history than avg american lib whose ideology is shaped by pedophile billionaire owned media.
hilarious to say this as your entire political position is to vote every 4 years and slowly see the people moving closer towards fascism and still saying “we will do it slowly!!”
I vote more often than that and if more people did, society would be more aligned with that they want. But most don’t, because stupid fucking morons like yourself convince them it doesn’t matter.
Voting does matter
Voting democrats however dont
Voting democrats however dont
Are you aware that not enough people vote 3rd party for a 3rd party to be viable?
Are you aware that no 3rd party is putting in the effort to make people want to vote for them?
Are you aware that it’s possible to reform political parties, but not if we descend to deeply into actual fascism due to an actual fascist party being in control?
So wouldn’t it make sense, in that scenario, to vote for a party that isn’t actually fascist (despite what tankies believe) so that we can have a less oppressive situation that is more likely to foster the kind of change that could potentially make a 3rd party viable some day?
I mean, unless you want to become a historical figure by starting a violent revolution. For which I hope you have a post-war plan so things don’t collapse even more.
Ok. I’ve read enough of your comments.
What’s your solution to our general problem and what are you personally doing about it?
I am not an american to do anything about it
My solution is to organize in an alternative party that is out of the bourgeoisie imperialist democratic party and put candidates from those parties in elections, however elections would be just one part, keep organizing and keep spreading class consciousness. If you are looking for immediate leftist gains through electoralism vote for a 3rd party that already has significant base like for example the green party.
I think more what I meant was, I prefer none of this have happened, but when trump and his fellow cult members choose to do something insane, I’m pretty happy to see the rest of the world cutting us out of their decision making so this insanity is seen as unacceptable.
Its hilarious how you think US does even one bit of good to the world
Collapse of tsarist russia made soviet union which was much better for the world. Collapse of USA will do much much better things for rest of humanity
When you grow up you’re going to come to understand that politics/countries/humans can’t be boiled down to black and white. There are many shades of grey.
The U.S. isn’t JUST evil. That you think so indicates that you aren’t ready to have a real discussion.
There are alot of nuances to this, however it boils down to US being evil.
coming from a liberal? what a joke lmao
We “tankies” aren’t Conservatives to want to “own the libs”
Why do you think that is what the meme says?
I don’t think “tankies” voted for trump tbf. More so just abstained.
I am more mad at tiktok teens. They basically mass-advertised trump, and after elections there was a trend of calling ICE on your non-american neighbors.
Abstaining was still a +1 for fascism, though. Like skipping the vote in 1933 German elections saying, “all sides same lol”
Though yes I agree there were many factions who helped enable the present fascist to go first past the post.
A vote for Joe Biden in the 2020 primaries was a vote for fascism. We tried to warn you he wasn’t the guy for the job. 🤷♂️
he has done none of what you claimed, but trump has done everything you wanted.
He literally went behind congresses back in order to send more weapons to a country in the middle of a well documented genocide.
I very much dislike Biden but I wasn’t worried about being shoved in an internment camp or getting LiveLeak’d by paramilitary goons for the crime of voicing an opinion or melanin during those years.
How are you not making the connection that Trump back in office is a direct result of Joe Biden’s [lack of] leadership when it was desperately needed?
It’s apparent. I think the left while more principled than the right doesn’t think strategically like the right. The right shows up consistently for their agenda of hate and disenfranchisement. Meanwhile, we are willing to let it all go to hell if it means having to suffer someone we don’t agree with 95%+ because then they’re just as bad as the other person.
The right shows up because they have funding from billionaires that allows them to be bussed in to the capital en masse, get legal funds covered, influencers get paid to spread fascism all over social media. The left doesn’t have the funding in the west like the fascist billionaires give to the right.
This is recent though. The modern right galvanized on deregulation, abortion, undoing “entitlements,” and civil rights advances in the 70s-80s and showed up consistently since then at local, state and federal elections in pursuit of that. Leftists show up if they like someone and won’t if they don’t. Or at least this is my observation from living in red vs blue areas. I will concede with you though that not having funding is a relative weakness of ours and has also played a role in shaping our current environment.
if it means having to suffer someone we don’t agree with 95%+
You agree with someone who supports genocide 95%? I sure as hell don’t.
Trivializing important issues doesn’t make your point.
Genocide – by which I assume you singularly mean Palestine as I doubt you care as much about other ones going on (e.g.in Sudan, Myanmar) – is not the only issue. (And before you insinuate I don’t care about Gaza, I donate to organizations that provide aid there as well as other international crises as the war in the DRC, etc.) There’s other important issues like climate change, dismantling the prison industrial complex, restoring reproductive rights, healthcare reform, reigning in the surveillance techbros, etc. I assume you support at least the majority of these. These are all ‘important issues’ and losing ground on these has the potential to harm millions domestically and abroad.
Trump already killed more children than Obama and Biden combined over 12 years with his cuts to USAID, WHO, and Paris Climate Accords alone, leaving aside the 40% excess covid deaths peer reviewed scientific studies indicate from his disastrous covid pandemic response but keep telling yourself this false equivalence lie.
Say really quick: can you confirm to me that you agree Xi and Putin are at least if not more so corrupt, psychopathic, and/or evil?
Xi? Have you been to China? They have affordable housing, Healthcare, education and transportation. They have less people in prison per capita than the United States.
Ah, and there it is.
Just kinda sorta kicking the brutal mistreatment of Uyghurs, Tibetans, or Tienamen under the rug conveniently, I see, eh? Do you enjoy the attempted imperial conquest of Taiwan China is obviously partaking in? What are labor conditions like there? How do you like those child sweat shops? Do you like that China gets to censor images like Xi as Winnie the Pooh? I guess I shouldn’t be surprised one who endorses authoritarianism over democratic principles, though. Not exactly free and transparent journalism there when anyone who opposes the CCP get disappeared conveniently, now is it? And how do you like that China is actively funneling weapons and mercenaries to Russia to use in imperial conquest and murder of women and children in Ukraine? Tell me, who are you sincerely believing in acknowledging the number of prison people per capita than the US, and what are the comparative living conditions of those prisons compared to the USA? As China goes full-steam on industrialization and capitalism, their pollution rates are significantly worse than USA as well in terms of concerns for climate change.
Also I noticed you dodged the entire rest of my comment, so please acknowledge this fact: Trump already killed more children than Obama and Biden combined over 12 years with his cuts to USAID, WHO, and Paris Climate Accords alone, leaving aside the 40% excess covid deaths peer reviewed scientific studies indicate from his disastrous covid pandemic response but keep telling yourself this false equivalence lie.
Parroting western propaganda that has been debunked thoroughly isn’t the gotcha that you think it is. What does the United Nations say about the treatment of the Uyghurs? Surely there must be some evidence other than Adrian zenz’ testimony?
Name one of those issues the Unites States doesn’t have in spades. 🙄
Really, is Whataboutism the best you’ve got? 🙄
Don’t mention the Uyghurs around tankies. At least if you want to keep your sanity and/or believe in the inherent goodness of people.
You know what rattles my belief in humanity? Supposed leftists regurgitating capitalist propaganda because they are afraid of being labeled a “genocide-denier” without even doing the research to see if the claim that there is no genocide in Xinjiang holds any water.
If you agree that capitalism is bad and that capitalist media exists to uphold the status quo, why do you just blindly trust the capitalists when they say there is a genocide? Especially when they deny the genocide in Gaza that is literally being televised every day. Obviously capitalist media cannot be relied upon for the truth.
Anyway, here’s some reading if you want to break out of the capitalist media bubble and start thinking for yourself: https://www.qiaocollective.com/education/xinjiang
It amuses me that your comment was down-voted automatically in literally less than 30 seconds of posting, which means there are actual bot farms on here down-voting the mere mention thereof. I only noticed because I happened to refresh and see the notification that you replied to me.
Though sadly yeah, I know what you say is true.
Keeping all the liberL bullshit you vommited about PRC aside (I dont like the PRC for being revisionist)
Killing children is not a contest that makes biden and obama accepatable, hope that helps and lessens your bloodthirst
Keep attacking strawman while purporting a false equivalence fallacy. Golly how I dream to live in your utopian fantasy-land of purity tests.
God, libslop like this is so fucking funny to read.
libslop.
What influencer trained you to say this?
Not even lib but nice try, little buddy lol. Your pretentious ad hominem (But thank you tankie for opening the door) deflections precede your actual knowledge and understanding.
For all our sake, I hope you’re just young (say, below 22-years-old?) and naive. Lay off the twitch chat and venture out in the world.
Easy to keep the prisons clear when you just ‘dissappear’ anyone that disagrees with you.
Source?
how is Xi evil actually? what evil has he done on his own?
Yes or No: Under Xi, he is funneling both Chinese citizens and arms to Russia to use in Russia’s illegal and inhumane invasion of Ukraine.
Almost every nation participating in global trade is doing that
is this something unique to Xi or PRC
“Everyone is doing it” / “Two wrongs make a right” / Whataboutism fallacy. Leaving aside the boldfaced false-equivalence.
So imperialism and arms trafficking and complicity in genocide is okay if it’s China doing it, is that right?
So, like, are you saying that I should have voted for Trump? That’s literally the OP meme lol
Are you under the impression Trump ran in the 2020 primaries against Biden?
Ah, well, egg on my face 🤷♀️ Who was your pick in the 202 primaries?
A vote for Joe Biden in the 2020 primaries was a vote for fascism.
My only hope is that one day when you’re an adult you look back at this comment and realize how fucking stupid it was.
It’s ok. Kids are dumb and make mistakes. They say the darndest things.
One of Bidens last acts before leaving office was opening up several detention centers for ICE. He continued weapon sales and aid to Israel long after their actions were widely recognized as a genocide. Biden did nothing to meaningfully preemptively protect us from the things we knew were obvious Trump was going to do. I’m not saying Trump isn’t worse, but I don’t think history will make Biden look any better.
as would any other candidate, it wasnt going to stop with biden or harris, it will be any DNC/GOP. decades of ongoing support for zionist Israel isnt going to suddenly stop, besides israel/aipac funnels back our tax dollars back tot he same politicians, plus they have numerous propaganda apparatus to help with that.
Biden was the Democratic nominee and here we are 6 years later under Trump. 🤷♂️ There were other candidates who would have made sure Trump ended up serving time for his convictions. Biden failed just like I knew he would.
No they’re worse. They did everything they could to stop people from voting against Trump. Conservatives are always going to be conservative but keeping others from supporting the alternative actually did more to help Trump than the people who were going to vote for him anyways.
They attack Bernie, AOC, and Mamdani the hardest right now. Because they’re not left enough. Absolute insanity.
They’re actively hostile towards anyone not 100% in line with their specific flavor of commie. Even other commies if you watch their infighting.
Like when German communists helped the Nazis and worked against the social democrats, because reasons.
But to be fair: Some tankie cried to me that the social democrats deserved that. And the Jews. And the Gypsies. And Poland.
What about when the libs worked with the nazis govt for decades?
It’s hilarious that people still imagine libs to be some force for good.
It’s hilarious that people still imagine libs to be some force for good.
I just know which of the two ideologies that can win elections in America is compatible with the future and vote for them. It’s pretty simple when you don’t overcomplicate things by whining.
The KPD strat of declaring the SDP “social fascists” and refusing all cooperation was certainly a move. Maybe they shouldn’t have waited until they were both in camps to work together.
Nazis were social democrats as well
Not to mention who hired friekorps to murder revolutionaries?
Saying that is about as stupid and uninformed as it gets.
Please, seriously please, look into actual nazi policies and ask yourself if those policies fit the claim.
Please look at the actions of the nazis. E.g. the Night of the long knives. Or ask if the systematic murders of disabled people, would be something that fits with social Democrats values.
Every historian with a focus on nazi germany disagrees with you.
democratic socialism is moderate wing of fascism
Social Democracy is not the same as democratic socialism. (E.g. germany understands itself as a social democracy but don’t do socialism nor democratic socialism)
The nazi murdered democratic socialists though.
Could you define fascism and socialism, please? For the sake of the argument, as you seem confused over social democracy and democratic socialism.
Why not give your definitions? Why not define liberalism since it’s the topic at hand?
This kind of definitionalism obscures the obvious reality that liberals and nazis collaborated for a long time. Perhaps always.
Because that guy uses words without knowing their meaning. That is why I want his definition. So he either acknowledge his lack of knowledge or learn or stay silent.
Except social democrats are not liberals.
they are the same thing, anything else is cope.
Nope.
Democratic socialism is socialism. So the idea that workers should own the mean of production. But it is Democratic. So the government should be Democratic.
Social democracy is capitalism. But that it should be Democratic and soften the weakness of capitalism by providing social programs.
You see, 1 is capitalism, the other is socialism.
workers owning means of production is inherently democratic, you dont need an additional democratic label for that.
Both of them are capitalism
They pretended to be social democrats to gain support of the mass. In practice they were not social democrats.
“not real social democratism”
Are you seriously implying that it’s a No True Scotsman fallacy to ever exclude anyone from any group? The Nazis didn’t even call themselves socdems, they called themselves socialists. That’s the same system that the PRC says it has right now; are they Nazis? Were the Soviets Nazis?
Very few arguments can be evaluated based on form alone. You have to check for external consistency. The Nazis were not socialists because they did not advocate for worker ownership over the means of production. They were not socdems because they did not advocate for universal public services. They were nationalist because they did advocate for national supremacy and closed (but expanding) borders.
they called themselves national socialists
you are an anarchist, you would definitely think the soviet union was worse than nazis and PRC is fascist.
You probably think the DPRK is a democracy too. ‘It’s in the name.”
If I call myself a giant, I don’t suddenly and magically grow to be 30’ tall. What people call themselves means nothing.
I was using that to illustrate that that line of thinking was stupid.
Anyone who says that the PRC is fascist, is by default not a tankie though
Can you describe how they were if that’s your proposition?
Because no, they weren’t social democrats in any meaningful way and even a basic understanding of their economic policy would tell you that.
Nazis were social democrats as well
Derp! What a fucking idiot! Let me guess you really believe Kim Jong has established a Democratic Republic in North Korea and you voted Trump because he said he’d fix the economy?
You’re a moron. You take fascists and fascist populists at their word? You’re a moron.
I dont live in america, not even in the west
secondly kim jong un certainly is working for his people better than many western leaders.
LOL
Planning on moving there soon?
this is the best argument you have? I dont understand the hatred you people have for a country that got its 12-15% population and most industries wiped out by american invasion but still defeat the imperialists and is still standing tall minding their own buisness. If you follow the news, DPRK has made remarkable gains in lifestyle improvements of its people recently and they will continue to grow. Why hate a country that has done nothing wrong ever?
Maybe it’s the constant threats they make against their neighbor to the south.
And they very much do not mind their own business.
Why would you simp for a totalitarian dictatorship? That’s so weird.
It’s one thing to support communism, that has merit, but you’re sitting here trying to make it seem like north korea is something people should admire. It’s a shit hole lead by an absolutely awful family.
Why would you simp for a totalitarian dictatorship?
Because they are a tankie.
They almost never threaten any of their neighbor out of nowhere, instead most of its neighbor which they threaten host US military bases and are themselves extremely hostile towards DPRK and support sanctions. DPRK have already abandoned the goal of reunification.
They obviously mind their own buisness.
I am not simping for anybody. I am just standing with the north korean people in their struggle against imperialism and the Marxist-lenninst revolutionaries who made DPRK a reality. Any system that isnt liberal bourgeosie capitalist democracy is dictatorship for you, north korea is definitely something people should learn from. How a country faced most powerful enemy on earth and withstood the burn of imperialism and continues its resistance till this day while having solidarity with oppressed people across the world. Its better than 70% capitalist countries if you go by even living standards so I dont know how it is a shithole and I dont care what you think about kim family as we arent here for leader worship. You are western chauvinist dirty imperialist.
Long live the korean revolution.
secondly kim jong un certainly is working for his people better than many western leaders.
nice argument
It’s not like the communists were the ones trying to coup the government to begin with…
Nobody also expected the Freikorps would evolve into Nazis.
guess who else couped the german government and what the social democrats did about it
He was arrested though? The Social Democrats was also the only party who voted against the Enabling Act that give him absolute power.
guess who else couped the german government
So is this an admission that the communists at the time were wrong to begin with for trying to coup? Tankies love to be getting self-owned 🤣🤣
communists were absolutely right
the difference between a communist coup and a nazi coup is that communists are good people and nazis are bad people. Hope this helps
We do not take moralist position like “X thing is bad in every context”
“No, no. The other side killing people is bad because they are the other side. We kill but it is my side.”
“No, no. The other side killing people is bad because they are the other side. We kill but it is my side.”
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Give me a break.
Libs support as many dictators as anybody else.
And when libs attack some “dictator”, it’s just to put their own dictator in there.
Some cases in point:
- Suharto
- Sisi
- Saddam Hussein before he committed the unspeakable crime of nationalizing oil
- Pinochet
- Batista
- Saudi Arabia
- Pahlavi
This list is very, very far from comprehensive. One important caveat is of course that a lot of liberals do this amnesia trick where they oppose every war except the current one, and support every civil rights movement except the current one. So, in retrospect, liberals will for example always claim to have always been against Pinochet, but you bet that they supported the overthrow of Allende. Watch them cheer on the Arab Spring which installs Sisi and then after the fact call him a bad guy. Actually, probably most of them have no idea who that even is. Deeply uneducated lot.
To a tankie, conservatives are liberals. The term has two different meanings to the two different groups. You found the joke by going around the back 🤣
I’m gonna go ahead and ask you to define liberal for me and we’ll see if American Conservatives fall under the umbrella. Not your personal definition, the actual definition.
Hey it’s one of the guys who did more to support Trump than regular conservatives. Good job guy
Right, the incredibly powerful American left wing lobby.
It’s so weird that the left has been put into two very odd boxes, “libs” and “tankies”. I see so much, valid IMO, hate for both them here but also the only ones ever mentioned. It feels like the American conservatives actually managed to succeed at doing something, and very well so, with this as I really doubt this would have happened naturally. It’s really fucked up, and I’m a random Swede and this shit has soured even our own forums, online and IRL discussions etc.
Liberals are not left wing lol. You only have right leaning parties in the US.
Of course American conservatives can succeed, they have the entire US billionaire class supporting them. They have been succeeding for decades, even when a Dem president has been in office they have steadily pushed US policy further right.
But you hear critique of the left more than we critique the right here because why would I bother arguing with someone who has an ideology and worldview completely irreconcilable to mine?
Tankies themselves use liberal as an insult. There’s definitely a difference between the two.
Using globally recognized definitions is an insult only because Americans have twisted the meaning.
The word liberal has become a blade with no handle that everyone in the world holds differently when they stab at their enemy. Basic Yanks use it wrong, tankies use it as a slur against basically everyone, and pretty much only left-coms and economists use it mostly the same way, but they don’t see eye to eye on much else.
I have tried to simply drop it from my discourse since it has so many unintended connotations that can cloud your meaning.
Of course, but many socialists here use the classic definition of a liberal. Which is annoying. Basically you have to translate into “neoliberal” when they say it. And yeah it’s pretty stupid, but they don’t want to accept the “rebranding” the neoliberals have managed to pull off.
Neoliberalism can be defined as the sincere moral belief in inequality based on money or wealth or class. Like if you are poor, your children should get worse food and education. Neoliberals believe this is morally correct. Neoliberals are not on the left, but are right wing. There are many who identify as leftists or liberals who accept neoliberal ideology because they simply can’t imagine radical change. There are many thought terminating brainworms in their heads.
This also explains why it’s so easy for neoliberals to transition to fascism. Fascism can be defined as the sincere moral belief in inequality - based on identity like ethnicity or gender. It’s just a small hop. And the US foreign policy has been outright fascist for many decades anyway. Biden is a fascist. Hillary is a fascist. Obama is “just” a neoliberal, but fuck him too.
I have found communists here who want to rehabilitate Stalin for some insane reason. I haven’t found a single “Tankie” who thinks Russia is still socialist or who are particularly happy with the human right issues or corruption in China, but still support them because they understand realpolitik. To me it seems the divide and hate overwhelmingly comes from the (non neo) liberals. Like OP is pure hatewagoning propaganda. Nobody “likes” seeing protesters shot.
libs are not part of the left, please
Wait I thought liberals were on board with capitalism? In what sense are they left wing?
You can have a mixed economy with the state regulating to avoid market failures.
You mean neo liberal which is right wing economically.
No, I’m pretty sure I mean liberal. Like Adam Smith type shit.
What the fuck is a tankie? Is it whatever nonsense is a neoliberal? What the fuck is a neoliberal? At this point, these points read like stupid trying to make sense of liberal, conservative, and libertarian? Like, the fuck?
Are we talking about Iran here?
I used to live under a communist regime. Love me some socialism but communism relies on the idea that you’ll replace one group of men with another, and they will just share the wealth and not enrich themselves and become the new oligarchy. Thats just not how humans work. Communist regimes are always misogynistic as well
Lol, dont know what communism was award.
Soviet union was hella progressive on women rights, weird to call them misogyinist
I think you mean specifically “Marxist-Leninist” or “Stalinist” specifically. To some people that’s the same as “communism”, but not to me and I am so pedantic I can’t help myself.
Yeah they marketed it as a shortcut to true communism, but it was just a short cul-de-sac.
Marxism Leninism is the only true and real form of pathway to communism.
Do not read OPs post history unless you want to receive liberal brainworm psychic damage.
It’s like baby’s first anticommunist lemmy agitprop, but somehow wrapped in the stink of a reddit poster. Gross.
Makes sense for a meme this delusional.
so-called “Anarchists” are only distinguishable from unabashed Neonazis by the weak-ass euphemism “Zionist” instead of “Jew”
OP
Amazing level of analysis. Why am I not surprised he’s a zionist? OP have you considered that you might be wrong?
People here pretend like there’s no link between liberalism and fascism, when OP is a living example.
The only people on here supporting fascists are the ones with .ml and, apparently, .dbzer0 after their names. Either help to stop dictators or get the fuck out of the way
Strong words from an instance notoriously full of actual nazis.
Just making shit up now lol. Yes, Canadians are the real nazis. I’m rubber and you’re glue strategy will definitely get everyone to ignore your obvious support for fascism
Lmao, perfect.
The person I’m replying to is a supporter of fascism, working tirelessly to keep fascists in power
.ml
lol
I don’t know about OP, but just one page of your comment history is so hateful that I hope we never meet irl.
Do you love those that oppress you? That’s weird.
I hate fascists and liberals who are aware of their politics. Hate is not innately bad. Take your pearl-clutching civility bullshit to somebody who is less experienced dealing with reactionary fucks. It has no effect on me.
I just have people like OP tagged as a lib so I know to ignore and down ote anything they say/post.
Simp for literal dictatorships harder papi, you’re proving my point XD
Checked the post histories.
Average .ml comment history:
Meanwhile “babies first liberal” here:
ACAB was a liberal position right?
I can tell you’re trying to make some kind of point, but you’ve failed to actually do so.
The guy you’re defending is a Zionist piece of liberal trash. His opinions on police are not relevant. If a reactionary person says ACAB, you’d probably call them a leftist too. Idiot.
Sorry I don’t worship at the altar of murderous authoritarians and kneel down to suck the right color boot, what can I do?
you worship democrats who are capitalist dictator imperialists, you are the real sucker of boot. Some people may simp for dictators (tankies like me dont worship any leader) but you worship a genocidal system, you are the real sucker.
Solid trolling, have a quick meme!
Mfw someone claims to not worship dictators:
Mao was not a dictator.
You’re getting ratioed on .world while doing the liberal agitprop that they crave. You must really fucking suck at this. Maybe hit up PugJesus or another of the liberal cretins here for some advice?
“Tankie buzzword, pro fascist propaganda, tankie buzzword”
Lol, you losers are so easy to read anymore
Are you satisfied adding so little to the discussion? It sounds like you’re content letting Marxists dominate the conversation. How meek.
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liberal brainworm psychic damage.
LOL, you dudes are fucked up. I don’t even care what his history is, this is a fucking embarrassing statement.
I feel like typing ‘LOL’ in all caps and double spacing your shitpost of a reply is more embarrassing than accurately describing OPs history.
Major boomer energy.
I don’t usually look at the post history of random people but amen
define “dictators”
define “sealioning”
owned the lib
Anybody that libs don’t like.
