- cross-posted to:
- piracy@lemmy.dbzer0.com
- cross-posted to:
- piracy@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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I am toying with the idea of creating a PDA of sort from a raspberry pie, touchscreen and a powerbank. Case can be 3d printed, it would be bulky af and equipped with Tails or some other secure OS.
Why not just get a PinePhone?
Because they are cool and build phones from scratch
Two things especially worth noting from the article.
If you have a non-Google build of Android on your phone, none of this applies.
This means that at least GrapheneOS will be unaffected for now. Other ROMs without gapps will be unaffected only as long as you don’t install gapps. Since Graphene has a sandbox for them, I’m assuming it’ll be fine. That is, unless Google decides to lock the bootloader entirely.
In September 2026, Google plans to launch this feature in Brazil, Indonesia, Singapore, and Thailand. The next step is still hazy, but Google is targeting 2027 to expand the verification requirements globally.
So most users worldwide still have at least 1.5 years until it’s implemented. Plenty of time to get a Pixel and install Graphene on it. Or to figure out some other plan.
Don’t get me wrong - this is insane, unreasonable and horrible news for everyone. We should push back as hard as physically possible against it. However, at the very least we still have some time to figure things out before the policy rolls out.
I wouldn’t be surprised if Google stop allowing BL unlocking soon… Following Samsung and Xiaomi (although Xiaomi technically can be unlocked, in reality you’ll not be able to do so nowadays unless you pay someone to do it via remote USB shit for you)
I’m getting Huawei
Literally just as bad lol
EU: How often do I have to teach you, old man?
EU: Thank you Google for complying with the DSA.
This is a a huge part of it, the whole “prevent illegal” parts.
- “easier reporting of illegal content”
- “less exposure to illegal content”
- “level-playing field against providers of illegal content”
The EU isn’t going to punish them for this, they will hold this up as the golden standard.
The Cyber Resilience Act may also have something to do with this.
Just as they did with Apple when they forced them to allow sideloading? So yeah, the EU will push massively against this if its implemented there.
You mean when they forced Apple to implement the “trusted trader” scheme.
Where does it say that Google is blocking all side loading?
It says they are blocking the installing of unsigned apps. This is the macOS Gatekeeper being the only option on Android. You can still download and install apps that aren’t in the Play Store. So the EU will still love this as 3rd party apps can still exist, but at the same time anything “illegal” can be reported to them immediately.
It’s effectively becoming the gate keeper in the same way apple only allowing app installs through its app store only is a gate keeper.
Where are all the open source phone OSes? Where are the OS agnostic capable hardware phones? Technically some do exist, but I don’t think they have any significant market share. Hope I’m wrong though.
Google slowly suffocated all the 3rd party rom vendors.
Essentially every browser that’s not Firefox or Safari is reskinned Google chrome for a reason. Because it’s insanely expensive to build and maintain browsers. Mobile operating systems aren’t much different in this regard.
That’s not exactly true. There are several FOSS mobile OSes, such as PostmarketOS, Mobian, Ubuntu Touch, and the various Android ROMs. Once it’s compatible, keeping that OS updated is relatively simple.
The issues with mobile OSes are:
- many phones lock their bootloadersl, and every phone mfg seems to do things a little differently
- so many different phone models with different hardware includes, none of which has manufacturer support in Linux
- closed firmware for cell modems, which have their own little OS that needs to work with the main OS; trying to touch this runs into regulatory issues
Basically, supporting a new phone has a lot of upfront work with very little ongoing work.
Web browsers, on the other hand, need to stay updated with constantly shifting web standards, they’re a huge malware target so they need to keep up on CVEs, and pages are getting more complex causing performance and rendering issues, and everyone blames the browser. Supporting a new platform is generally trivial, but the ongoing work is immense.
They’re very different beasts.
Ok this needs harsh pushback, because phones are affordable, computers are not. There needs to be a massive project dealing with making phones platform agnostic.
Have you shopped for those items recently? You have 200 buck computers and 2000 buck phones.
I will pay hard cash money for some devs to bring postmarketos to quality hardware vendors.
I’m all for buying a pinephone, but man are we missing out on the full potential from some genuinely good OEM hardware stuff like razr flip.
Aside from google doing google things, android has been a bloated java pos toy OS for nearly a decade now. It completely wastes the full potential of superior hardware by running everything on a shitty JVM known as the ART that was designed for when devices had <512mb of RAM. A Nintendo 3DS can do better multi process tasking than modern android which regularly kills app threads for no reason other than to screw with you because you dared to switch to a different app for 5 seconds.
Android was supposed to be the big apple killer because of its closeness to a desktop OS with heavy emphasis on widespread features and functionality. Even technically speaking, rooting got you there if you wanted to run whatever straight on the linux environment or swap kernels.
Its nothing but a ripoff iOS clone now. Android 7/8 was probably the peak of development and usability, and even back then people were complaining it didn’t have groundbreaking improvements like 6 or lollipop.
I don’t think that it’s the lack of quality hardware what is stopping adoption of Linux on phones. There are many resons why I don’t consider someting like PostmarketOS viable as a daily driver for most.
First of all some apps are just not available on Linux. Banking apps are a prime example. Most banks are now requiring some form of app where I live and they don’t even consider Linux. But that’s also another problem in it self.
Secondly: driver support. Drivers aren’t something one thinks about when talking about phones. But they are needed and mobile phones being what they are, most manufacturers aren’t really open to do anything in that regard.
As an Android developer I’m also annoyed by the restrictive power management of Android. But it’s there for a reason. On PostmarketOS my phone would be dead after sitting around all day doing noting. On Android I can maybe squeeze two to three days of use out of the same phone. And that’s not even with the OEM rom.
That being said, I hope for a future were all of the current issues can be solved and we finally have a viable alternative to Apple and Google.
To be clear, I’m in no way trying to defend what Google is doing.
I honestly don’t care about apps. I switched to GrapheneOS and opted to not use Google Play Services, so my app selection is very limited, especially for things like banking apps. It turns out I can just use the website for the vast majority of them, and I can fill in the gaps with FDroid apps.
The main things stopping me from using a Linux phone (eg PostmarketOS) are:
- MMS compatibility - I use this a lot with family, and getting everyone on Signal or something isn’t going to happen
- battery efficiency - the best I’ve heard is 8 hours with light use, and there are still issues receiving notifications in standby mode
- hardware quality issues and drivers - every phone supported by PostmarketOS either has a bunch of unsupported hardware (ie no camera support), or the hardware is poor (ie the PinePhone has crappy audio)
I don’t need a flagship with top tier driver support, I just need basic phone things to work. I’m even okay with poor camera quality, provided I can take pictures of things and clearly read the text later. I don’t need much in terms of app support, and I’m willing to help port things I need. But my phone needs to work as a phone, and it needs to do so all day without needing to charge until night.
If you have the ability to, don’t use a smartphone. You’ll be better off and you don’t have to care about stuff like this anymore.
For real, when this thing rolls out, I’m going to stop updating and try to still use my foss apps for as long as they still work, once my phone eventually becomes useless I’m not going to spend 400 on an expensive phone just so I can run custom roms. I will have to just get used to not having a computer in my pocket all the time again.
FYI: Apple got sued for blocking other app stores. This would prevent f-droid from being installable
f-droid would be verified right?
It’d be up to Google to do so, and they probably will just as an example of them totally not being a monopoly “look we even allowed a competing store”.
I kinda miss my BlackBerry.
Kinda? More like deeply.
Hands down the best experience I have had on a phone was my z10. Over 10 years later, and I still use BlackBerry’s keyboard.
Did some research and here are your options:
- use custom mod (the new restriction only applies to certified devices). You can use microG (/e/, iode, Lineage) or sandboxing (GrapheneOS) to run apps requiring Google services. Google will still try to kill it but my bet is it will still work for at least a couple of years
- Ubuntu Touch - you can buy new devices with it, it can run android apps using waydroid but you will not be able to run any apps requiring google services. It can run native Linux apps. Native UT apps are build using QML. It has a completely new system API so it’s closer to Android then native Linux. It’s based on Halium which uses the kernel from Android
- PostmarketOS - native Linux running native Linux apps. Can use waydroid. Few supported devices but everything works on PinePhone Pro and few others phones.
- Droidian or similiar - Debian running on Halium. Kind of half way between PostmarketOS and Ubunut Touch. Native Linux but running on Android based kernel
Personally, I will stick with GrapheneOS for now (my Pixel still has at least 6 years of support). When I’m unable to run all the apps I need on it I will switch to two phones setup: stock Android for work/car apps, some Linux phone for everything else. When my Pixel dies I will switch to iPhone.
What are u talking about. Were u living under a rock? - Google killed off most custom roms
Google has already started killing GrapheneOS by removing device trees from AOSP releases. Android 16 works fine, but for how long?
I would imagine the first thing any custom ROM would do is bypass Google’s app restrictions.
I wouldn’t be surprised if in 3 years I would need to pass hardware attestation to install a calculator app from the Play store.
I would imagine the first thing any custom ROM would do is bypass Google’s app restrictions.
Those restrictions don’t apply to custom ROMs. Yes, it’s clear Google is trying to kill custom ROMs but I think we still have couple of years. Linux phones are improving fast and I think in 5 years we will end up in the same spot we were with PCs 20 years ago: you will be able do most of daily driving on a Linux phones but some apps just won’t be possible to run (Authenticator apps, banking apps, Whats App, Android Auto…). Dual booting will not be possible so most probably I will end up with two phones: daily driver and work/car phone.
There are not going to be apps on Linux phones.
Definitely not banking apps.Tbh situation looks dire as fuck.
Use a bank with a good web interface…
Sorry most people won’t be choosing bank based on that
GrapheneOS still intends to support all the supported devices until EOL. The sideloading change doesn’t affect them. It won’t apply to GrapheneOS. It only applies to certified OSes and GrapheneOS is not certified because it doesn’t license Google Mobile Services. As per the rip out of the device trees for Pixels, that just makes Pixels like other phones. GrapheneOS has been able to expand it’s automation to build that device support themselves. For new devices, making the support will take longer than it did in the past though, but they will still support those Pixels, as long as they meet the hardware requirements and still allow third-party OS support with all security features intact. Besides that GrapheneOS is actively talking with a major Android OEM right now in order to help them reach the security requirements for a subset of their future devices. They are very optimistic about tha
Its Nothing Phone right? It has to be, LG is dead, Sony has a niche, Samsung can get fucked, Moto is budget, HMD wants to be Nokia but I just dont see it, Asus?
What’s a good custom ROM for a Samsung Fold 7? Just bought one and it’s my dream phone so so I don’t want to give it up so soon already, just so I can watch YouTube without ads. Planned on keeping it for at least the next 4-5 years…
You really should have thought about that before buying the device. You cannot install a custom ROM on my Samsung device anymore.
You always have to look at what devices custom ROMs support BEFORE buying them.
If you want to use custom ROMs you have to check support before buying a phone. Fold 7 is not supported by any custom ROMs from what I can see. Also, I’m pretty sure you can just use Fennec with Adblock on stock Android and not have ads.
If you want custom roms, you have a fairly restricted set of options for phones.
Do any alternatives allow using banking apps or android pay or android auto?
I realize there are no substitutes for banking apps, but are there any alternatives for android auto or pay if those cannot be installed? Preferably Linux alternatives.
The substitutes for banking apps are banking websites. If your bank does not allow you to use your bank from a website, you should switch banks. I did.
Curve is not available in US and has terrible reviews on Play store.
I’d switch in a heartbeat, but I can’t live without a smart watch and having to pay with physical cc again would be a massive downgrade.
I have a suspicion that all the android clones will become a much worse/unusable experience once Google implements these changes.
Availability in the US might be a bit of a challenge, as the Google/Apple duopoly has solidified greatly over the years there. Europe has the entire BoycottUS movement these days, so there are a lot of attempts at developing something independent there. But as with most new solutions, they have the added difficulty of being compared to these bigger companies who’ve already had many years to develop and perfect their solutions.
The choice boils down to how much you value your principles over comforts, and whether downgrading to physical cards is worth it. Personally I’ve recently done just that.In regards to Android clones becoming worse, I saw GrapheneOS say on Mastodon that it won’t affect them in any significant way. Hopefully this is the case for most, and will remain the case.
Seriously, I see these custom Android Auto USB Sticks that people use to watch Netflix and I just want to know how they hooked into the APIs to do that
Wasn’t Apple sued for not allowing sideloading?
You will be able sideload but the developer has to be authorized by Google. I.e. you can still install apps from f-droid but people publishing apps on f-droid will have to register with Google.
I dont have an issue with a festure to allow my phone to automatically veirfy signatures. But there should be a way to import/configure more signature verification providers including my own authority and even then it should still allow imstall if user really want and trust it.
Of course, the real issue is that it requires developers to sing up into Google’s ecosystem to distribute any apps. The entire ecosystem of mods and alternative stores will be fine but it’s just another proof Google is trying to kill it.
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Google getting rid of all the things that made people want an android phone over an iPhone.
Yup my first thought was “Where is your God now?”
Google ditched “Don’t be evil” a long time ago.
Linux phones are moving fast but it feels like Android is moving faster on the other direction 😥
(Yes I know Android is built over Linux, I mean more traditional and open distros like postmarketos)
Are they moving fast? It’s been like 18 years since the iPhone came out and there really isn’t a viable Linux phone.
There was a viable Linux phone 15 years ago: Nokia N900. Microsoft took care of that when they bought Nokia. At least Windows phone was a resounding success…
Wasn’t the viable Linux phone Android at first? (I am younger than the iPhone so maybe I don’t really know how it was)
By Linux I mean “FOSS” phone. Android is based on Linux, but it is also loaded with spyware out of the box. If you’d asked me 18 years ago whether there would be a viable FOSS phone by now, I would’ve thought yes. But, postmarketOS still advertises itself as “not ready yet” and Ubuntu Touch is still pretty niche.
Yep, if this happens there is no benefit to android.
I mean, there is still UI/UX, app store policies, and general cost/options.
This definitely makes Android a lot less appealing. But it is also questionable to act like the biggest reason to use android was sideloading apps since the vast majority of users don’t even know that is an option (and probably shouldn’t since they have no understanding of how to vet them). Especially since Apple isn’t any better (?).
Ui/ux is honestly worse on android compared to something like ios. The playstore is honestly stuffed with ads and seems to be actively regressing in ux (the update apps menu is hidden behind like 3 layers of dialogues). Cost wise a used iPhone is probably a better deal than a cheap new android phone.
I used android primarily because I could install apps Apple basically doesn’t care about (and after the 5th time gba4ios broke).
Comrade, the ignorance of the masses should not dilute our anger
So… “the ignorance of the masses” should be combatted by willful ignorance and nonsense that falls apart the moment anyone looks at it?
Get angry. I sure am. Look for alternatives. Graphene sure ain’t it but I hope it will be in the next four or five years. But this is something google are willing to futz with for a reason: The vast majority of users don’t care about it and even with the changes it isn’t significantly worse than the competition.
Yet everywhere I see “Well, I guess I have to buy Apple now” which is just… buy it if you want to but don’t pretend this shit is why.
It’s still a step up from iOS, which has had similar restrictions since they started.
“This ad company restricting anything you can load is better than iOS” is decently a thing you can say hahahaha
Apple allows sideloading (somewhat), this is would be demonstrably worse (if enacted)
somewhat
Yes. Only in the EU and only since 2024 when Apple was forced to do it by new laws. It’s reasonable to assume Google would be subject to the same laws.
If you live outside if the EU, it’s “no sideload for you!” There are computer programs that can do sideloading to iPhones, but they have limitations, like having to refresh the sideloaded apps every seven days.
Wholly incorrect. You’re allowed to sideload up to 3 apps (or 10 appIDs, whichever comes first) without being a developer, and that arbitrary restriction is removed if you pay for a dev license, regardless of which part of the world you’re in.
In the EU you’re allowed to install third party app stores (still have to be notarized by Apple) which isn’t sideloading
The limitations depend on which program you’re using - there’s more than one - which is why I only gave a simple example. And if you have to pay for a function that is otherwise free to many others, that’s a limitation.
Side loading is installing an app from anywhere but the official store. So by definition “third party” is side loading. Whether it’s another store or authorised is irrelevant.
The limitations depend on which program you’re using - there’s more than one - which is why I only gave a simple example.
No it doesn’t. It’s in all the documentation, official and otherwise
Side loading is installing an app from anywhere but the official store. So by definition “third party” is side loading. Whether it’s another store or authorised is irrelevant.
You can’t just make up a definition, believe it, and then share it like it’s true. We’re going by the legal definition as that’s the only one that matters.
Apple only allows up to 3 apps or 10 appIDs to be sideloaded, wherever you are in the world. Period.
Whatever things made people get into Android some 20 years ago are no longer relevant to the majority of people.
The biggest benefit will remain the apps. People love apps. In that regard, their only competition is Apple. It’s why no one can make a new phone OS.
The other reason is cost. If you want a cheap device, Apple has no such thing. There are hundreds of Android devices you can buy for a couple hundred dollars.
For those who buy Samsung flagships for more than an iPhone, well those people I can’t explain.
For those who buy Samsung flagships for more than an iPhone, well those people I can’t explain.
Well, it could be explained before: Flagship hardware without the restrictions of iOS.
Now… After this bullshit… yeah…I can see apps becoming less important over time. PWAs were basically what Apple originally planed for the smartphone anyway and now they are capable of damn near anything you would want an app to do. No store to rely on. No updates to install. No storage space being eaten into. The browser engine functions as a layer of abstraction between the scary untrusted app and your own OS. It’s kinda perfect.
You might think so but PWAs have been around for a long time and seen very little adoption.
Unfortunately, that is 0.1% of their global market that is affected. So, they don’t really have much to lose.
Ffs if I have to move to apple before the third option is stable.
I will forever lament my windows phone. Ironically, it was the only option that didn’t need to be rooted to do custom shit. You could just screw with the registry and program with .net and direct X
It didn’t live long enough to become a villan
Great. This could be just the boost that free android needs. Graphene and eos can brace for a few new customers i guess
I’ve been using graphene for a few months, but this latest news was what reminded me to start a monthly donation to the project. Hopefully Googles shenanigans push more people towards funding alternatives as well
I’ve gotta get a new phone soon (ol Pixel 3 is getting long in the tooth) and this is what I’m looking at too. I highly prefer the “default” Android UI, and the ability to install programs of my own choosing — but fuck Google, imagine getting locked out of your phone just because Google randomly unpersoned you.
Graphene developers seem enthusiastic to all the bullshit that Google comes up with, and on security/privacy tradeoff they seem to usually choose security. Case in point, the mandatory battery update.
CalyxOS seems to choose privacy first, but that project folded recently.
It didn’t fold. They are just reorganizing. Don’t spread misinformation.
