It’s hilarious that people still imagine libs to be some force for good.
I just know which of the two ideologies that can win elections in America is compatible with the future and vote for them. It’s pretty simple when you don’t overcomplicate things by whining.
The KPD strat of declaring the SDP “social fascists” and refusing all cooperation was certainly a move. Maybe they shouldn’t have waited until they were both in camps to work together.
Are you seriously implying that it’s a No True Scotsman fallacy to ever exclude anyone from any group? The Nazis didn’t even call themselves socdems, they called themselves socialists. That’s the same system that the PRC says it has right now; are they Nazis? Were the Soviets Nazis?
Very few arguments can be evaluated based on form alone. You have to check for external consistency. The Nazis were not socialists because they did not advocate for worker ownership over the means of production. They were not socdems because they did not advocate for universal public services. They were nationalist because they did advocate for national supremacy and closed (but expanding) borders.
Saying that is about as stupid and uninformed as it gets.
Please, seriously please, look into actual nazi policies and ask yourself if those policies fit the claim.
Please look at the actions of the nazis. E.g. the Night of the long knives. Or ask if the systematic murders of disabled people, would be something that fits with social Democrats values.
Every historian with a focus on nazi germany disagrees with you.
Social Democracy is not the same as democratic socialism. (E.g. germany understands itself as a social democracy but don’t do socialism nor democratic socialism)
The nazi murdered democratic socialists though.
Could you define fascism and socialism, please? For the sake of the argument, as you seem confused over social democracy and democratic socialism.
Because that guy uses words without knowing their meaning. That is why I want his definition. So he either acknowledge his lack of knowledge or learn or stay silent.
Democratic socialism is socialism. So the idea that workers should own the mean of production. But it is Democratic. So the government should be Democratic.
Social democracy is capitalism. But that it should be Democratic and soften the weakness of capitalism by providing social programs.
Derp! What a fucking idiot! Let me guess you really believe Kim Jong has established a Democratic Republic in North Korea and you voted Trump because he said he’d fix the economy?
You’re a moron. You take fascists and fascist populists at their word? You’re a moron.
this is the best argument you have? I dont understand the hatred you people have for a country that got its 12-15% population and most industries wiped out by american invasion but still defeat the imperialists and is still standing tall minding their own buisness. If you follow the news, DPRK has made remarkable gains in lifestyle improvements of its people recently and they will continue to grow. Why hate a country that has done nothing wrong ever?
Maybe it’s the constant threats they make against their neighbor to the south.
And they very much do not mind their own business.
Why would you simp for a totalitarian dictatorship? That’s so weird.
It’s one thing to support communism, that has merit, but you’re sitting here trying to make it seem like north korea is something people should admire. It’s a shit hole lead by an absolutely awful family.
They almost never threaten any of their neighbor out of nowhere, instead most of its neighbor which they threaten host US military bases and are themselves extremely hostile towards DPRK and support sanctions. DPRK have already abandoned the goal of reunification.
They obviously mind their own buisness.
I am not simping for anybody. I am just standing with the north korean people in their struggle against imperialism and the Marxist-lenninst revolutionaries who made DPRK a reality. Any system that isnt liberal bourgeosie capitalist democracy is dictatorship for you, north korea is definitely something people should learn from. How a country faced most powerful enemy on earth and withstood the burn of imperialism and continues its resistance till this day while having solidarity with oppressed people across the world. Its better than 70% capitalist countries if you go by even living standards so I dont know how it is a shithole and I dont care what you think about kim family as we arent here for leader worship. You are western chauvinist dirty imperialist.
Were they minding their business when they bombed korea air flight 858? Were they minding their business when they sent troops to participate in russia’s imperialist war against Ukraine? Were they minding their business when they shelled Yeonpyeong?
You aren’t anti-imperalist or fighting against the bourgeoisie. You love dictators who steal the resources of the people and maybe it’s wrong of me to call you out on your weird dom fetish; I shouldn’t kink shame you.
Like when German communists helped the Nazis and worked against the social democrats, because reasons.
But to be fair: Some tankie cried to me that the social democrats deserved that. And the Jews. And the Gypsies. And Poland.
What about when the libs worked with the nazis govt for decades?
It’s hilarious that people still imagine libs to be some force for good.
I just know which of the two ideologies that can win elections in America is compatible with the future and vote for them. It’s pretty simple when you don’t overcomplicate things by whining.
The KPD strat of declaring the SDP “social fascists” and refusing all cooperation was certainly a move. Maybe they shouldn’t have waited until they were both in camps to work together.
Nazis were social democrats as well
Not to mention who hired friekorps to murder revolutionaries?
They pretended to be social democrats to gain support of the mass. In practice they were not social democrats.
“not real social democratism”
Are you seriously implying that it’s a No True Scotsman fallacy to ever exclude anyone from any group? The Nazis didn’t even call themselves socdems, they called themselves socialists. That’s the same system that the PRC says it has right now; are they Nazis? Were the Soviets Nazis?
Very few arguments can be evaluated based on form alone. You have to check for external consistency. The Nazis were not socialists because they did not advocate for worker ownership over the means of production. They were not socdems because they did not advocate for universal public services. They were nationalist because they did advocate for national supremacy and closed (but expanding) borders.
they called themselves national socialists
you are an anarchist, you would definitely think the soviet union was worse than nazis and PRC is fascist.
If I call myself a giant, I don’t suddenly and magically grow to be 30’ tall. What people call themselves means nothing.
I was using that to illustrate that that line of thinking was stupid.
Anyone who says that the PRC is fascist, is by default not a tankie though
You probably think the DPRK is a democracy too. ‘It’s in the name.”
Can you describe how they were if that’s your proposition?
Because no, they weren’t social democrats in any meaningful way and even a basic understanding of their economic policy would tell you that.
Saying that is about as stupid and uninformed as it gets.
Please, seriously please, look into actual nazi policies and ask yourself if those policies fit the claim.
Please look at the actions of the nazis. E.g. the Night of the long knives. Or ask if the systematic murders of disabled people, would be something that fits with social Democrats values.
Every historian with a focus on nazi germany disagrees with you.
democratic socialism is moderate wing of fascism
Social Democracy is not the same as democratic socialism. (E.g. germany understands itself as a social democracy but don’t do socialism nor democratic socialism)
The nazi murdered democratic socialists though.
Could you define fascism and socialism, please? For the sake of the argument, as you seem confused over social democracy and democratic socialism.
Why not give your definitions? Why not define liberalism since it’s the topic at hand?
This kind of definitionalism obscures the obvious reality that liberals and nazis collaborated for a long time. Perhaps always.
Because that guy uses words without knowing their meaning. That is why I want his definition. So he either acknowledge his lack of knowledge or learn or stay silent.
Except social democrats are not liberals.
they are the same thing, anything else is cope.
Nope.
Democratic socialism is socialism. So the idea that workers should own the mean of production. But it is Democratic. So the government should be Democratic.
Social democracy is capitalism. But that it should be Democratic and soften the weakness of capitalism by providing social programs.
You see, 1 is capitalism, the other is socialism.
workers owning means of production is inherently democratic, you dont need an additional democratic label for that.
Both of them are capitalism
Socialism is not the same as democratic.
Socialism describe how Property right should work.
Democratic describe how the government works.
Both are independent Ideologies.
Socialism is not capitalism and to claim that is ridiculous.
Derp! What a fucking idiot! Let me guess you really believe Kim Jong has established a Democratic Republic in North Korea and you voted Trump because he said he’d fix the economy?
You’re a moron. You take fascists and fascist populists at their word? You’re a moron.
I dont live in america, not even in the west
secondly kim jong un certainly is working for his people better than many western leaders.
LOL
Planning on moving there soon?
this is the best argument you have? I dont understand the hatred you people have for a country that got its 12-15% population and most industries wiped out by american invasion but still defeat the imperialists and is still standing tall minding their own buisness. If you follow the news, DPRK has made remarkable gains in lifestyle improvements of its people recently and they will continue to grow. Why hate a country that has done nothing wrong ever?
Maybe it’s the constant threats they make against their neighbor to the south.
And they very much do not mind their own business.
Why would you simp for a totalitarian dictatorship? That’s so weird.
It’s one thing to support communism, that has merit, but you’re sitting here trying to make it seem like north korea is something people should admire. It’s a shit hole lead by an absolutely awful family.
Because they are a tankie.
They almost never threaten any of their neighbor out of nowhere, instead most of its neighbor which they threaten host US military bases and are themselves extremely hostile towards DPRK and support sanctions. DPRK have already abandoned the goal of reunification.
They obviously mind their own buisness.
I am not simping for anybody. I am just standing with the north korean people in their struggle against imperialism and the Marxist-lenninst revolutionaries who made DPRK a reality. Any system that isnt liberal bourgeosie capitalist democracy is dictatorship for you, north korea is definitely something people should learn from. How a country faced most powerful enemy on earth and withstood the burn of imperialism and continues its resistance till this day while having solidarity with oppressed people across the world. Its better than 70% capitalist countries if you go by even living standards so I dont know how it is a shithole and I dont care what you think about kim family as we arent here for leader worship. You are western chauvinist dirty imperialist.
Long live the korean revolution.
Were they minding their business when they bombed korea air flight 858? Were they minding their business when they sent troops to participate in russia’s imperialist war against Ukraine? Were they minding their business when they shelled Yeonpyeong?
You aren’t anti-imperalist or fighting against the bourgeoisie. You love dictators who steal the resources of the people and maybe it’s wrong of me to call you out on your weird dom fetish; I shouldn’t kink shame you.
Good luck with your struggle, comrade 🤣
nice argument
It’s not like the communists were the ones trying to coup the government to begin with…
Nobody also expected the Freikorps would evolve into Nazis.
guess who else couped the german government and what the social democrats did about it
He was arrested though? The Social Democrats was also the only party who voted against the Enabling Act that give him absolute power.
So is this an admission that the communists at the time were wrong to begin with for trying to coup? Tankies love to be getting self-owned 🤣🤣
communists were absolutely right
the difference between a communist coup and a nazi coup is that communists are good people and nazis are bad people. Hope this helps
We do not take moralist position like “X thing is bad in every context”
“No, no. The other side killing people is bad because they are the other side. We kill but it is my side.”
“No, no. The other side killing people is bad because they are the other side. We kill but it is my side.”
You are not the first tankie to eventually admit they are deep down, power hungry murderers 🤣
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Cat got your tongue? 😂😂