Edited to replace original incorrect Herzog attribution with my own version that correctly attributes the quote

  • PugJesus@lemmy.worldEnglish
    1224·
    11 days ago

    It’s gruesome, isn’t it? When I was young, I used to believe that people were, for the most part, decent. Misled, often, stupid, very often; but good at heart. Now, I’m convinced that a good third of our society is broken and a third of our society is blind to anything that doesn’t affect them.

    • henfredemars@infosec.pubEnglish
      552·
      11 days ago

      It was a strange feeling when I reached an age and realized that most people I know didn’t meet the standards of what I thought should be a good person.

      • Maeve@kbin.earth
        192·
        11 days ago

        Good people make mistakes, often repeatedly. Great people eventually learn something.

    • hydroptic@sopuli.xyzOP
      46·
      11 days ago

      I actually originally dug this picture up for a post of this RawStory article titled ‘Their ignorance is willful’: WaPo analyst says enough with the MAGA voter pity, which is highly relevant.

      The problem with the majority of right wing extremists isn’t that they’re just stupid misled bumpkins, but that they’re actual psychopaths who vote for people like Trump because he’s promising to hurt everybody they hate

      • PugJesus@lemmy.worldEnglish
        34·
        11 days ago

        I’m convinced that we’ve lost, at minimum, 20% of our nation to some kind of mass-hysteria style sociopathy. I mean, maybe they’ve always been lost and we just didn’t realize it, but going forward, I don’t think anything can be done to ‘fix’ them. Most people, I think, are responsive to their environments and social standards, but after a point, you get so dug in that peer pressure doesn’t work, even on social animals like us. All we can do is save the children of that 20%.

        • hydroptic@sopuli.xyzOP
          32·
          11 days ago

          It’s the same with conservatives pretty much around the world right now.

          I really don’t know how we’re going to unfuck the situation without a lot of bloodshed – and make no mistake, it would be them who spill that blood like they’re already doing, just at a much larger scale. As it is, conservatives are a threat to stable and peaceful societies, and due to their resistance to meaningful climate action they’re an existential threat to humanity in general.

          • PugJesus@lemmy.worldEnglish
            131·
            11 days ago

            I have some hope, at least. People in general are passive, even when they hate the status quo, they often cede to a fait accompli. The trick is getting each bit a done deal before conservative talking heads have time to formulate the best Pavlovian Ten Minutes’ Hate for their audience.

            And making sure the kids continue to be alright.

        • ALQ@lemmy.world
          12·
          11 days ago

          I think what happened is that it became more acceptable to show their nastiness; that they used to have to hide it because our society wouldn’t accept it. Then Trump being elevated to president normalized the violence and hatred being out in the open and those people felt safe to come out of the woodwork.

          I feel like it was always there, simmering beneath the surface, but I’m a self-admitted (overall) misanthrope who thinks most people are, on average, pretty shitty.

        • Maeve@kbin.earth
          21·
          11 days ago

          We could start by addressing the actual causes of conditions of despair.

    • dohpaz42@lemmy.worldEnglish
      22·
      11 days ago

      None of what you describe is necessarily mutually exclusive. You can be broken, misled, misinformed, and stupid, while still being good at heart.

      I think that everyone is blind to something. Some of us are less so than others. Growing up in this world will do that to a person. Shit happens to everybody. Some of us are better equipped than others to handle it, while others are not.

      • PugJesus@lemmy.worldEnglish
        51·
        11 days ago

        None of what you describe is necessarily mutually exclusive. You can be broken, misled, misinformed, and stupid, while still being good at heart.

        Yes, but the issue is that they’re broken, misled, misinformed, stupid, AND malicious.

        I think that everyone is blind to something. Some of us are less so than others. Growing up in this world will do that to a person. Shit happens to everybody. Some of us are better equipped than others to handle it, while others are not.

        I would ascribe that intermittent blindness more to the other ~80% of the population.

        • RestrictedAccount@lemmy.world
          5·
          10 days ago

          We are blind too. It’s just that the things we were raised to believe but don’t realize aren’t petty and mean.

          How your raise kids matters.

          For instance, most of the people who are atheists in the west argue for a set of beliefs that perfectly aligns with protestism without God. It is baked into every lesson they were taught as a kid.

      • Nyxon@lemmy.world
        4·
        11 days ago

        It takes a lot of work to keep your heart from hardening in this world but it is work worth doing.

    • pyre@lemmy.world
      18·
      11 days ago

      if it makes you feel any better you were wrong and it was always fucked up. the difference between now and when you were young is that you’re more aware now.

      • PugJesus@lemmy.worldEnglish
        5·
        11 days ago

        Oh yeah, I’m not saying I think society has changed for the worse. It’s definitely just that my eyes are open now.

          • KillingTimeItself@lemmy.dbzer0.comEnglish
            1·
            10 days ago

            those are specific selections of fucked up ness in society. At some point that was considered to societal norm, people pushed outside of it, as the government and society intends to happen, shit gets goofy, eat sleep repeat and gay people are normal now.

            we’re also talking about a specific problem in politics, manifested in a very specific way today, that wouldn’t have been possible merely 20 years ago, so i think it’s fair to treat this like a sort of historically true fact.

            unless you’re trying to argue that humanity has been a constant state of bad throughout it’s entire history, which i doubt, and also changes from person to person. It’s not really relevant to go that far back i think.

            • pyre@lemmy.world
              1·
              9 days ago

              they’re not selections in the cherry picking sense; the country’s history is a constant stream of oppression and political violence.

              only one of them is a specific event, but i pointed it out it was particularly fucked up. but the rest aren’t specific at all; they’re entire periods of time where the “fucked up” was the norm, and the law.

              i don’t exactly understand what you think we’re talking about. you say it’s a “specific problem” but didn’t specify it really. so i don’t know what’s supposedly impossible merely 20 years ago.

              but merely 20 years ago gays couldn’t marry. 20 some years before that the AIDS epidemic was ignored because the government thought it was a gay problem and didn’t care.

              there was always oppression and there still is. the orange cunt didn’t invent anything. he just started saying the quiet part out loud.

              • KillingTimeItself@lemmy.dbzer0.comEnglish
                1·
                9 days ago

                the country’s history is a constant stream of oppression and political violence.

                this would be applicable to the entire history of the human race as well.

                i don’t exactly understand what you think we’re talking about. you say it’s a “specific problem” but didn’t specify it really. so i don’t know what’s supposedly impossible merely 20 years ago.

                i’m talking about the fascist conservatism problem, and the specific ways in which it’s being empowered. Something like this has literally never happened before, hitler being the closest thing, arguably. But that was before the modern era and now we have so many more avenues for social control and influence than with hitler.

                there was always oppression and there still is.

                i don’t disagree, i just think in this specific aspect (politics) it’s gotten substantially worse since the early oughts.

                The specific mechanism of the problem is brand new and very hard to deal with, which compounds with the problem.

                • pyre@lemmy.world
                  1·
                  9 days ago

                  this would be applicable to the entire history of the human race as well.

                  irrelevant, as we’re talking about US history, not world history. you’re the one saying we’re in worse times than before and I’m asking when that was.

                  i disagree that fascism wasn’t a serious problem before, i just think they’re more comfortable with visibility today thanks to the orangutan leatherface. if you mean this to be the specific mechanism, okay, but i don’t know if it’s really worse than the insidious cryptofascism doing the same shit but with masks and dog whistles instead.

          • P00ptart@lemmy.world
            11·
            10 days ago

            As far as stability, and the shaking of this country from a NATO sided democracy to a BRICS sided dictatorship? Yeah, I’d say it’s right up there if it does happen.

    • TSG_Asmodeus (he, him)@lemmy.worldEnglish
      9·
      11 days ago

      “10 percent of any population is cruel, no matter what, and 10 percent is merciful, no matter what, and the remaining 80 percent can be moved in either direction.” -Susan Sontag

    • sebsch@discuss.tchncs.de
      5·
      11 days ago

      The problem mostly aren’t the individuals. Human normally are nice.

      These are processes started by psychopaths using the heard instinct for their plans.

      Most individuals are nice, groups of people on the other hand can never be trusted.

      • PugJesus@lemmy.worldEnglish
        111·
        11 days ago

        Gonna have to disagree with you there. Individuals are good are pretending they’re nice. The number of people who are horrifying when they think it’s safe to let their mask down around you is… concerning.

        • P00ptart@lemmy.world
          4·
          10 days ago

          Not even kidding, about a year and a half ago, I took a job in a different department at work, and within 10 minutes, the guy that I was training with, had said 3 offensive slurs within the first 10 minutes of meeting the guy. Like dude, I could go to HR right now and you’d be gone in another 10 minutes. Wtf? In 2023? I mean, the guy was 71 years old, so I kinda gave him a pass on doing that, which kinda gives me the ick, but still. I didn’t turn him in because they basically built the building around where this guy happened to be standing and got offered the job the day it opened up. Another guy, whose only 38 and should know better though actually did get a 30 day suspension for repeated racist remarks. He’s actually a smart guy but he’s been mislead. Not a very nice guy, but smart.

    • rayyy@lemmy.world
      3·
      11 days ago

      Our politics as of late indicate to me that people of good heart will now kill you for their dear leader.

    • jpreston2005@lemmy.world
      2·
      10 days ago

      We’re all just reeling from traumatic experience to traumatic experience. We don’t get any real time to slow down and heal, so emotions from one trauma show up in other unrelated problems. People become a bull in a china shop, hit someone else, who then becomes another bull in said china shop, they hit a few more, who then in turn become more bulls, so to anyone in the china shop that hasn’t been hit yet, it all seems chaotic and evil. We’re all just deeply traumatized with no avenue for healing.

    • Maggoty@lemmy.world
      33·
      11 days ago

      Many of them are misled. You can be born into a completely alternate reality with the way conservative culture has been cutting itself off from news and media.

    • nadir@lemmy.world
      13·
      10 days ago

      I’ve been awake for a while and have been forced to watch the slow move towards it over the decades.

      Good thing there’s always nature to take your mind off the topic of totally preventable tragedies caused by profit seeking and complacency.

  • JonsJava@lemmy.worldMEnglish
    456·
    10 days ago

    This has been reported for violating rule 2: “No misinformation”, as the quote was misattributed.

    The full rule:

    Don’t post any intentional misinformation. When asked by mods, provide sources for any claims you make.

    OP admitted they didn’t double check the author of the quote. This means it was not intentional.

    Leaving it up.

    • hydroptic@sopuli.xyzOP
      16·
      10 days ago

      I’ll just make a new one (this isn’t oc) when I get home but that’ll be 10h at least. It’s OK to nuke this since it is sorta misinfo, although I didn’t know it when I posted it

      • JonsJava@lemmy.worldMEnglish
        25·
        10 days ago

        Nah. That would nuke all the back-and-forth found here. I’d rather keep the discussion up.

        • derek@infosec.pub
          9·
          10 days ago

          I have a deep appreciate for this level of discernment. Moderating posts and their discussions in good-faith and abiding by the spirit/intention of the rules instead of strict enforcement by letter fosters community trust and makes it more difficult to argue against removals/bans when they do happen.

          Thanks for volunteering and keeping the lights on.

    • Etterra@lemmy.world
      32·
      10 days ago

      See he should have attributed that quote to Julius Caesar, then it would be considered humor and not misinformation.

      JFC just enjoy the meme.

    • EatATaco@lemm.eeEnglish
      34·
      10 days ago

      This sounds like if someone just said they didn’t know it was bs, it’s a get out of jail free card.

      • luciferofastora@lemmy.zip
        172·
        10 days ago

        …the precedent that people are allowed to make minor mistakes? Gasp THE HORROR

        Seriously, this mistake isn’t a big deal, no intentional misdirection and in any case, the quote is more important for conversation than the actual author.

        • snf@lemmy.world
          101·
          10 days ago

          I think the objection here is that it creates a massive loophole: Intentionally post misinformation, claim you thought it was legitimate. Repeat until you stop getting the benefit of the doubt, start over with a new account, repeat ad infinitum.

          I’m not sure what the best solution is, but I think we at least need some kind of very clear notice, on the feed page and not just in the comments, that the content is proven to be factually incorrect.

          • luciferofastora@lemmy.zip
            3·
            10 days ago

            If it’s more serious misinformation, it probably warrants taking down the post, even if unintentional. The nuance would then be that genuine error doesn’t immediatly warrant banning, even if the post is taken down.

            This one is a mild and unintentional case with little implications either way. If someone were to cite this as “But this one you left up!” as excuse for a different, more severe case, the mods would justifiably say that it doesn’t apply.

            Besides, it’s not like setting a precedent is as serious for community mods as it is for courts of law - mods can change the rules when a situation arises that warrants it and enforce them accordingly, make one-off decisions for special cases or admit a previous decision was a mistake and generally have more leeway.

      • WaxedWookie@lemmy.world
        6·
        10 days ago

        Think about the precedent that pulling down discussions wholesale because some inconsequential detail about them is wrong sets.

      • P00ptart@lemmy.world
        2·
        10 days ago

        I’ve been accused of being everything; from an autocrat to a commie, left wing to right wing, liberal to conservative, bigot to bleeding heart, I’ve been called snowflake by both sides. People are fucking crazy and have even crazier ideas. It all just depends on the specific crazy that belongs to the person you’re talking to atm. I’m pretty far left, but there’s people left of me that think I’m basically Nicki Haley.

  • Redruth@feddit.nlEnglish
    14·
    10 days ago

    People of Earth, you are waking up, as our advanced space-faring race once did…

    – Gul Dukat

    Dukat 2024 – Make Cardassia Great Again

  • OldWoodFrame@lemm.ee
    113·
    10 days ago

    I kinda hate this framing because it makes it seem inevitable and ever-present. Even on the right it’s more like 5% true hate, 28% normal Republican who does not find true hate disqualifying. There’s plenty of reason to discredit that or disagree with it etc but it’s not the same as being in the 5%.

    I was just listening to an interview with an evangelical who was lesser-of-two-evils on Trump, he’ll vote for Trump but he’s not a True Believer.

    • Cavemanfreak@lemm.ee
      12·
      10 days ago

      But if the 28% are still voting for the true hate, how does that not make them complicit in what the hateful government is doing? Knowingly voting for the hateful option puts the 28% in the same pen as the 5%.

        • StinkySocialist@lemmy.mlEnglish
          4·
          10 days ago

          I’m pretty sure the only thing that would solve this is re-education camps for all registered Republicans lol. Those people are divorced from reality. Even the never trumpers don’t believe in climate change.

  • collapse_already@lemmy.mlEnglish
    81·
    10 days ago

    I guess I am in the murderous third. If I could Thanos snap the MAGA out of existence, I would not hesitate.

  • StrandedInTimeFall@lemm.eeEnglish
    104·
    11 days ago

    Nah, ain’t no one woke up to anything. Every decade proves that human beings are capable of bad shit. Even those you would consider good, are going to have dark thoughts about someone or something. I guarantee you that there’s some hidden darkness in Mr. Rogers, Levar Burton, and Bob Ross that never got revealed. Probably stuff they never even told another person. There exist people who know they are capable of really bad shit and have enough forethought to keep it inside them.

    I take it as a wild ride to know that while I may not be the smartest or any kind of -est, that I have enough awareness to know that blind anger will never lead any place good. It may get results and even last centuries, but it’s a hollow victory. Along a long enough time line, the victims are likely to become the oppressors. The watchers become the watched. And, the powerful become weak.