Traditional gun enthusiasts have “their scenario”. That is, the thing they think they will need their cache of ARs and survival gear and 10k rounds. SHTF, end of the world as we know it, meth addled home intruder, zombie apocalypse, whatever.
I think folks on the left never had “their scenario” and correctly assessed the odds of those scenarios happening was low. So, logically, no need to arm themselves.
Those odds have changed and we’ve been watching those scenarios play out live on social media. Leftists have taken notice and are adjusting their relationship with firearms appropriately.
I’ve always been of the belief that more guns cause more death, and I still hold that belief.
However, the last decade has proven to me that this country is far too stupid to maintain a democracy so, unfortunately, the guns are necessary, because things are about to get a whole lot sketchier in this nation. And as things degrade, I need protection, particularly from low IQ aggressive conservatives.
This meme assumes liberals, or the left broadly construed, view guns in the same way.
Conservatives want to bring their AR-15 into Burger King, because they view guns as a sort of magic totem of protection.
Of the left gun owners I know, liberals, Anarchists, Marxists, etc. They have a far more grounded view of guns, and see them much more for the tool that they are.
I didnt think feeling safe was why liberals where buying guns. I thought it was to make oppressors and aggressors feel less safe.
There is a highly performative and cynical segment of the left who occupy large parts of Lemmy and I love that this post is getting the amount of pushback that it is.
We are NOT in the same timeline we were a few years ago, the world is changing rapidly, and we need to change with it to survive.
Guns are literally an oppressive force. The second amendment people are ready to kill those who try to stop ICE or change the government in a way they don’t like. Their threat is literally murder, but sure more guns will solve this problem.
“The second amendment people” are the oppressive force. The guns are tools used by said force to oppress.
Semantics. There are more guns in the US than people in the US. Guns are an oppressive force themselves in these extreme circumstances.
No different than having land mines all over at this point. People die needlessly due to proliferation thus creating an oppressive force without 2nd amendment gun nutters.
People aren’t claiming that they love guns, or gun violence. The point is that gun reform is dead for the foreseeable future. And since we are all forced to live in a society with gun proliferation, it makes sense that fascist shouldn’t be the only ones with guns.
Yeah, this is just learned helplessness wrapped up in a pretty bow.
What makes sense is dealing with the problem. We can’t regulate guns, but we can regulate bathrooms!?
Yeah, I am not buying it. Also, people are claiming they love guns and plenty love war as well. My daughter’s coworkers had a spirited conversation about how we should just rip off the bandaid and invade Canada and Mexico.
Clearly there is something wrong with our society and the proliferation of guns is just another symptom that needs to be managed as you would any disease.
Purchasing a firearm is one thing, but if you fail to practice consistently, you will fuck up.
I don’t know. MAGA Marty is probably not to worried about a tyrannical government kicking in their door.
yeah its amazing to me that the country with more guns than people is as of late surging to get more guns. the craziest part is, its really hard to blame the leftists for this conclusion, given the context.
The thing is, the guns are largely concentrated in the hands of people that make the left feel unsafe - and recent events have caused the left to feel even less safe about the situation. Now the liberals are arming up to balance out the equation a bit, and that’s driving a big part of the surge.
thats basically how i understand it, yes.
i dont feel comfortable conflating leftism with liberalism, but thats another can of semantic worms.
Yeah, sorry - I spent too many years hearing the right complain about libruls as if the term encompassed everything to their left, and I still haven’t completely untangled that knot in my brain.
extremely cool reply. cheers.
Under no pretext should arms and ammunition be surrendered. Any attempt to disarm the workers must be frustrated, by force if necessary.
Conservatives want guns to protect themselves from a bunch of DEI boogymen that don’t exist. The left is buying guns to protect themselves from the boogymen that are currently publicly stripping away/violating their rights while doing multiple genocides.
Trying to act like the two groups are the same makes you either a boldfaced liar or an idiot. But hey, at least you get to be smugly superior with your snappy little meme.
Get to feel smugly superior. Because they certainly aren’t.
Yeah you’re right, instead I should trust that the police will use restraint, arrive instantly, and do the right thing 🤡
You white and rich? Then yeah. You black and poor? Then FUCK no.
A dog is much better protection than a gun.
Dogs get shot.
Life isn’t a video game.
Ask a real world security professional and they’ll tell you to get a dog.
A gun salesman will tell you that if you buy a gun you automatically become Annie Oakley
I think we’re talking two different things. I’m not saying to buy a giant handgun and wait for robbers to come into your house so you can blast them away.
I’ve known people who fantasize about that. They are gross.
What I’m saying is that the police in the United States have a history of shooting dogs, so they do absolutely nothing for you anti-fascist security. They would absolutely help against theft and robbery because most robbers want to be quick and quiet. Police don’t care.
But so a gun doesn’t help either. It just means they call SWAT and take you down with superior numbers and firepower, doesn’t it?
The only real place where a gun helps is in an actual civil war, or possibly against a single non-governmental bad guy (with risk of being shot yourself as well).
I have a dog. I’m also surrounded by fascists in the deep south. I’m keeping guns because I’d rather live than die for some abstract moral point you’re trying to make about how we should live in a fantasy land where people in fascists states don’t need guns.
What you mean, you don’t want your tombstone to read “Died by blunt-force trauma from an unregulated militia sweeping homes, but at least kept to true to civility and good manners, and that’s what matters most.”?
Haha just kidding, you won’t get a tombstone, they have ovens for that.
Ask a real world security professional and they’ll tell you to get a dog.
I am a (former) real world security professional.
And I’ll say that a gun is much easier to carry around with you than a dog.
I taught my gun to walk, now I don’t have to carry it anymore :D
Good boy!
No they will fucking not.
What exactly do you think we’re arming to defend against? Roving bands of goblins? Crackheads? Do you even read the news? Do you understand politics at all and the consequences? Do you KNOW that nations have fallen to authoritarians in the past, or does that seem like more “nothing ever happens” daydreaming and worldbuilding?
Look up MOVE.
Philadelphia police bombed a house in the middle of the city.
If it comes to an armed conflict, I really doubt that the folks who couldn’t get Bernie nominated are going to win a firefight.
Stop living in videogame land.
Stop living in videogame land.
If that’s how you think this works, you’re the one with the vision of some video game firefight. We are arming up as a message, not because we think we will win against a military force. But so that if electoral politics fails, we have power to back up our resistance. “Door-to-door meat grinder” is the worst five words any military leader wants to hear and we need to make that becomes the standard our political currency is built on.
The whole fucking reason that the hardline conservatives in the US have taken so goddamn much ground and got their clown messiah elected is exactly because they understand we don’t live in a star-trek utopia and have embraced POWER to back up their demands, they carry the flag and own guns and declare their willingness to fight for the things they want.
It’s not about “defeating the military” it’s the knowledge that when they come for you, you will take as many of them with you and hopefully make it too damaging to them to continue the plan so that your neighbor has a chance. It’s about protecting each other through sacrifice.
What are YOU doing? Asking for civil discourse? What era do you think we’re entering? They are literally making databases of people critical of the regime. Get your head out of your ass and understand that people braver than you are actually willing to fight and die for the same things you want, so you get to decide what role you play in getting there.
Nothing your wrote makes me think you could handle an actual gunfight.
We don’t know that. It might be, and unfortunately I think who ever is playing has gotten bored.
10,000 dogs a year are shot and killed by police on routine duty. That’s just what we can estimate based on what we know. Your dogs are not going to protect you from the actual threats we may face as the US continues to decline.
https://trace.tennessee.edu/entities/publication/d303db7c-80cc-4a6a-83c5-fd19be3d33ac
In fact, if you own dogs and care about them at all, it’s HIGHLY important that you understand if you let a cop inside your house they may just fire a round into your beloved canine family member’s head without warning or explanation and you will have ZERO recourse. They are awful people who want to kill. It’s not a meme.
By that logic, a gun won’t either. Many gun owners are shot by police. If you shoot back at an unlawful entrance, they just bring more. They don’t really care. Power disparity is too great already.
This fight is won elsewhere.
This fight is won elsewhere
Yah? Where?
I agree we need electoral politics and we need community action, but tell me what you’re going to do if that fails.
Seriously, what do you do when it fails and the violence spreads, and they start kicking down doors. What international law-enforcement do you think exists out there? How sheltered and comfortable is your life that you think “that can’t happen here?” Answer me.
Because a lot of shit that people said will “never happen here” is fucking happening here RIGHT NOW.
The fight was lost in the Supreme Court. 42 USC §1988 was explicitly set up to grant civil rights attorneys fees if they won their claim (and it costs a lot to prosecute a civil rights claim). But lawyers and firms would accept winnable civil rights cases on the basis that they would eventually get paid. That came to a halt in 2001 in 532 US 598, decided on May 2001, which talked about the rights of the “prevailing party” to be paid. In function, it killed civil rights litigation.
Buckhannon Board & Care Home, Inc. v. West Virginia Department of Health & Human Resources https://www.oyez.org/cases/2000/99-1848
The police shooting people because they have or might have guns is a clear violation of the 2nd amendment right to carry. (ACLU never got involved because they don’t take 2nd amendment cases).
But here’s the thing. Cops don’t arrest right wing armed protesters. Why do you think that is? Cops are willing to shoot unarmed protesters in wheelchairs, but fail to move on a fat out of shape protestor with an AR-15. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2012/sep/25/protests-houston-police-shoot-unarmed-man-wheelchair
“Winning” requires multiple fronts, from civil resistance and disobedience, to openly carrying protests, to voting, to boycotts, to lawsuits, to just simply speaking out when something isn’t right. And proposing alternative solutions.
But here’s the thing. Cops don’t arrest right wing armed protesters. Why do you think that is?
Oh I know exactly why that is.
Against random criminals, not occupying forces with an itchy trigger finger.
Good thing Alex Pretti was armed. Oh wait.
If only he had a dog with him…
Yeah the dog thing is silly too.
An organized and effective political movement is what will protect us, not weapons.
An organized and effective political movement with weapons.
I don’t see how the weapons will be useful honestly. Iran has a very well armed military and they’re almost totally powerless before the US military. Military conflict is perhaps the singular thing fascists are best at. I’d rather attack my enemies where they are weak instead of where they are strong.
I mean I’m not opposed to people being armed but it really should be viewed as a last resort to hurt your enemies as much as possible before you’re totally wiped out rather than a realistic path to political change.
¿Por que no los dos?
Cops love to shoot dogs.
Even chihuahua?
They’re smaller and harder to hit.
Smaller hitbox. Fair argument.
They distract the invaders while I load my crossbow.
Elaborate.
I know that the second a gun is brought into a house the members of the household are significantly more likely to be shot. I believe it’s because of the number of gun related suicides as well as the risk of a negligent discharge.
This is true, but in a vacuum in a life-threatening situation a gun is better than a dog for defending yourself. And also does not require you to intentionally put an innocent creature in harm’s way. And also does not require nearly as much upkeep as a dog.
But you are correct, the presence of a gun does statically increase your risk of being shot. And that is something worth considering.
Edit: and furthermore if you buy a guard dog, your risk of being mauled by a dog will likewise go up.
A claw hammer would be a better option than a gun. Why does everyone assume that a gun would be the best thing to defend yourself with in all situations.
Ok you bring a claw hammer and I’ll bring a rifle we’ll test your theory out
Think to yourself for two seconds why a gun would be better for self-defense than a hammer.
Because if roving death squads knock on your door to haul you off to one of the many new, huge concentration camps they’re building, they will think twice if you have a shotgun pointed at your door, not so much if you have a fukkin hammer pointed at the door.
I am speaking as someone who taught self defense and martial arts for many years.
“Oh no, now everything looks like a nail! Guess it’s Hammer Time.”
Are we shooting eachother across a field or are you invading my house?
What advantage does a hammer have over a gun in a moment of self-defense?
I can grab it at a moments notice as it can safely be left out, you don’t have to load it or aim it so using it is fast and simple. If its my home they’re invading I know where to hide. I trust my ability to swing and hit someone in a panic far more than I do my ability to handle a gun under the same pressure. Its just going to be easier and more reliable to hit someones head with a hammer than it will be to shoot them.
Unlike you, I actually train with my gun so we have very different concerns when under pressure. Mine relate more to not getting killed to make some kind of moral stand about how guns are bad in all contexts.
it can safely be left out
Honestly, I wouldn’t leave hammers lying around where kids could get to them any more than guns. The hammer will be less deadly, sure, but a dumb kid will still cause a lot of damage with it.
you don’t have to load it
True
or aim it
False, lol. You out there protecting yourself with unaimed hammer swings?
I trust my ability to swing and hit someone in a panic far more than I do my ability to handle a gun under the same pressure.
Skill issue. Requires training time.
The only advantage I agree with is the ability to leave a hammer out versus a gun, and that’s only in cases of having small children at home. If your gun is for self-defense, it would make more sense to keep it loaded and easily accessible.
I have to say it’s a very strange stance to prefer to defend yourself within arm’s reach of an assailant versus at a distance. I think you’re also giving yourself a lot of credit when you say you’d be more confident swinging a hammer with enough accuracy and strength to incapacitate someone while panicking. Better hope you get them in one swing.
Unless you’re fighting nails, a claw hammer is not not the best thing to defend yourself with in any situation.
Liberals never want leftists owning guns cause when liberals send Pinkertons to murder us they don’t want us fighting back.
You sound like a liberal wanting rights nshit
Saying “liberals” is incorrect. NEO-liberal is the correct word. Liberal progressives/socialists are not the same thing.
This is the stupidest comment I’ve seen on here in a while, and there’s a lot of dumb stuff on here.
Tell that to the miners Baldwin-Felts shot
Yeah, that was in the 1890s…last time that was a problem was 1937.
The event I was referencing was 1921, and the last time a picketer was shot was 2023, but whatever I guess…
Why look at recent history when you can make declarations about how this is all ancient history
Yeah because we don’t have unions or labor movements anymore. Thanks libtards.
I don’t think ‘feeling safe’ is the goal so much as the understanding that the Nazis are making a huge comeback, and that votes and protest signs don’t generally do a great job of killing Nazis.
Like, if you’re going down anyway, might as well bag a few Nazis on your way out; or maybe you see some Nazis harrassing someone and you’re a safe distance away with a rifle.
So… you could be part of solving a gigantic problem, but it will 100% not make you safe. To the contrary, it’ll make you a target.
How does this meme have so many upvotes while every response to it is in opposition of it?
People who agree are more likely to upvote and move on, I’d guess.
But that’s just a part of it.
Propaganda posts have backings
Bullshit, I don’t advocate for getting a gun right now because it will “make you feel safe” you dingus, we arm up because… I cannot stress this enough, we have a corrupt regime using death-squads to haul people to concentration camps FFS.
I don’t care how you feel, I care about making sure the powers that be understand that if they start using force to exert will across the US, then it will be a door-to-door meat-grinder. That is political capital, not a safety blanket, and if you have your emotions tied to gun ownership in any way, you ARE just as bad as MAGA.
No no. You do it for the statistics.
When the black panthers started getting guns, they got gun reform laws up real quick.
Now imagine every LGBTetc individual getting a gun, it shows up in the Republican Excel sheets. They start getting scared and invent new laws to make it harder.
If/When you buy the gun, you disassemble it and store it in a certified gun safe. This way when they storm your apartment and kill your because “you had a gun” it’s a fuck lot harder for them to plant a gun on you.
“I have some qualms shooting people.” Aka “just as bad as Maga” Lol you need to go have your brain checked, it don’t work so good.
We don’t live in your fancy happy world where being the better person keeps you and the people you love safe. I hope you never have to realize how naive that world is. I will fight to the end to keep you safe if it comes to that point, but holy shit I will be pissed if you can’t even shoot a gun. Stay comfortable and naive, i won’t see any more messages from you.
Take your own advice you twerp.
You buy guns to feel safe.
I buy guns to feel dangerous.
We are not the same.
