Russia has moved to classify key demographic statistics following a dramatic collapse in its birth rate, which has plunged to levels not seen since the late 18th or early 19th century, according to a leading Russian demographer.
For decades, Russia has been experiencing a plunging birth rate and population decline, which appears to have worsened amid its ongoing invasion of Ukraine—with high casualty rates and men fleeing the country to avoid being conscripted to fight.
Projections estimate that Russia’s population will fall to about 132 million in the next two decades. The United Nations has predicted that in a worst-case scenario, by the start of the next century, Russia’s population could almost halve to 83 million.
Aaah yes “Smakalka”
step 1: send your men to a pointless war
step 2: potential mothers realize their sons would only be meat in the meat grinder
step 3: nobody wants to have children anymore
step 4: be confused??Don’t forget removing any relief for people having kids. And dissolve their quality of life. That always goes over so well in completely diminishing any chance of population growth. Just ask Kim jung un
step1.5; men fleeing to other countries to avoid war.
People who think Russia will last. Have no idea how bad drug abuse is in that country.
alcoholism is actually thier favorite pass time.
They’re so poor. They don’t even do heroin. They do crocodile.
make it worse.
Don’t worry the fentanyl problem there is exploding. Thanks to China.
I have it on good authority that fentanyl comes from Canada.
It’s global. Who the fuck wants to procreate in a world that’s about run out of water??
Uuuuuuuh what?!?!
Could you elaborate on running out of water?
Some parts of the globe is going to run out of water, some areas of the globe are about to get way too much of it. You know, climate change and all that.
Well, shit. Hopefully they’re fixing this!
it’s this stupid doomerism that thinks that we will run out of drinkable water and start wars.
There’s good science that drinkable water is indeed in danger but the doomers ignore the fact that all of this argues about the price of water not the existance of drinkable water. It’ll be more expensive, but the market will create new technologies to filter and desalite water so eventually it’ll balance out.
In fact, this might be a net good as currently water treatment technology has no investments because water is so plentiful. This means poor regions where water is actually a problem now will get this technology and some balance will be restored to the world.
Great, the fucking market that’s already so good at properly distributing food so people don’t starve is also going to handle our water needs. I have no idea why anyone would be panicking about this.
How is this magic technology going to be freely implemented eveywhere and especially in the poorest parts of the world? You description of the mechanisms of invention and investing does not sound at all like how these things actually works in the world we are living in.
I’m genuinely confused by your question. The same way all technology is being delivered? The bigger research market the cheaper is the product and water treatment is no different.
Our top scientists are not solving water issues because there’s no market for it. African people who go 10km one way to the well don’t have the funding to fund this and in the grand scale of things this is such a small issue that it gains no attention and it’s easier to patch it with temporary solutions and existing inefficient technologies than to invent new stuff.
This is a very well known problem in the charity scene that applies way beyond this water issue and it’s not some secret issue that nobody knows about it.
I remember hearing that food engineering was going to solve the planet’s hunger problem. People are still starving, and the rich are becoming richer. Now I’m hearing about “water treatment technology”. Really? Rivers and lakes are drying up. There are unprecedented forest fires, floods, tornadoes, etc. Drinkable water will be more expensive?? WTF? What’s next?? We’re going to have to pay for breathable air?
According to this…: https://www.chunkerowaterplant.com/news/water-desalination-cost-per-gallon The cost of desalination per gallon of seawater is “approximately $0.005 to $0.01”
I would assume people would figure it’s cheaper to pay that cost than to fight wars over it. Most of the planet is covered in water. Like with food, these resource shortages are largely political. The hardest part is removing these power hungry parasites from power. Immense suffering is endured all because of these few billionaire pieces of radioactive shit.
That’s ignoring the environmental impact. You get brine on the other end that is basically wet salt iirc and if you release it in bulk you will fuck up the nearby environment
Plus you have high energy costs for desalination. Solar energy might help, but the desalination process is slow and needs to run 24 hrs a day to produce enough water efficiently.
You’re building a straw man that is unrelated to the issue at hand. Sure rich hoarding and political issues are bad but we will not run out of water. Period.
Yeah every new technological solution has its associated ecological cost. Some are better than others. Guess which ones are the most profitable.
There’s something called the Kuznets environmental curve that explains this pretty intuitively. It’s an optimistic forecast that I only buy when I’m in a good mood.
Population will fall to about 132 million in the next two decades
Which means that it already is that low. If you don’t count the parts of Ukraine that Russia thinks it owns and the hundreds of thousands of young people who fled the country earlier in the war.
it was 144mil a couple years ago.
2-3 millions are dead or have fled for what I know.
But a birthrate at 1.5? That’s bad news, 0.6 lower than the replacement level (2.1) so every new generation will be 30% smaller!
Military losses are not deaths. Deaths are only a fraction of losses.
True, but 2-3 millions have died or fled the country.
Removed by mod
You’re literally rooting for the extinction of an ethnicity. Don’t conflate a people with their government. The folks in the Twin Towers did not deserve to die, regardless of all the horrible things their goverment has done. The folks at the October 7th festival did not deserve to die, regardless of the horrible things their government has done. Russians do not deserve to go extinct, regardless of the horrible things their government has done. Please try to keep your genocidal tendencies in check.
Yes yes, “just doing my job, not my fault” https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superior_orders
So you’re stupid is intentional.
So are you saying Americans deserved 9/11? Because I disagree with that.
You’re talking sbout civiians, dumbass
he would probably send 70 more million before he admits defeat, probably not. as long as men keep going to the meat grinder he doesnt care.
Removed by mod
Better yet, I would like to see the idea of machismo itself get taken down a peg.
Wonder where you’re from
Removed by mod
Oh we are now upvoting posts that condemn a whole culture as evil. Very classy Lemmy.
It’s been deleted so don’t blame lemmy
Evil like raping your subordinates on the battlefield or evil like kidnapping children and cultural genocide? Or evil like sit on your hands and allow your rulers to destroy you and world security for hundreds of years?
Were they under orders to rape corpses or does that come natural
I wonder would you say the same thing about Nazis in 1940s
Seriously. If you are a woman, do you want to bring a child into this world?? Our climate is a disaster, and anyone who “could” do anything about it is doing everything they can to accumulate wealth at the expense of the planet. Fascism and misinformation is rampant. Geezus, people are telling Mothers that inoculations are bad. Think about that… polio vaccines that rescued generations of children from “iron lungs”, leg braces, and death. Those vaccines were developed from science. SCIENCE I’m an old lady now. If I was young and of child bearing years—I would not have children.
I’m a woman, with two kids, they’re not my biological children. I never wanted to have kids but other people are having kids and I figure why not love the kids already here? There’s plenty of kids to go around there’s no need for me to personally make a kid. If the kids are already here we should do as much as we can to make their lives good but if they’re not already here it should stay that way.
100% agreed. If possible, get a rescue kid. (In general, without getting into the nitty gritty details about the adoption processes around the world.)
As a dude, I wouldn’t want to bring a kid into this shithole of a world either. Most of my generation doesn’t, and I can see why.
So, if you want to get snipped, does the doctor ask , “does your significant other agree with what you’re doing? Maybe they should be here during this decision”. Does that sound ridiculous?? Well, that’s what women deal with on a regular basis.
Im 57, i tried to have a vasectomy at 18 and was refused here in Australia mutiple times over 2 years because “I would change mind” and I was told I would meet somone who would want to have kid with me and they’d be upset if i was unable to."
I flew to Thailand in my late 20s and had it done at the end of a holiday there in a hospital in Bangkok, no pun intended.
Even in 2016 when I had mine done it had to be done abroad even though I lived in a country where any consenting adult can ask to be sterilised without legally mandated delays or any nanny state bullshit. I was poor otherwise I could have sued half the urologists in the country because they gave wrong reasons for refusing like me not having children and me being young.
One also scammed me by sending me to a psychiatrist buddy of his who just went on to spend 30 minutes insulting my intelligence for wanting to not bring children into this world. I’m glad I learned the lesson at that age that just because people are doctors it doesn’t mean they’re not disrespectful and/or stupid.
And you’re a woman, right?
“vasectomy” - so he is a man. You’re not helping your cause by antagonizing half of the population (men).
I hate to shit on your general point, but they absolutely do ask in this case.
I stand corrected
Not sure where you’re from. If a woman wants to sterilize in the U.S. it’s a HUGE problem: If you’re married they want the husband to verify your decision. If you’re a young woman, they’ll deny because “you may change your mind”. BUT, a man can get snipped no questions asked.
I’m a snipped man… there were a lot of questions.
I don’t know who told you “no questions asked”, but that definitely doesn’t match my lived experience.
I was refused (tried a few tines from 18-20) and had it done overseas im my late 20s. Thay was decades ago though so it might have changed.
Am Australian.
OK, but did the Doctor insist that your significant other/wife must come in and agree to the procedure?? NO. You answered a lot of questions, and the procedure went forward. It was YOUR decision.
So I refute one specific point of your argument. Another commenter even says they were outright denied. And your sane and rational response is “well that doesn’t matter” and you downvote me even though I was adding to the topic/discussion that you brought up?
Grow up dude.
Unfortunately for your case, you’re still wrong. But that won’t change your mind regardless and I’m not interested in talking to someone who acts the way you are.
It’s the false liability excuse. They think women will sue since it’s not as reversible. Really it’s management just justifying their jobs with bullshit policies.
Start locking up management who try to dictate patient care for practicing medicine without a license, see how fast most things level out.
That includes insurance groups, hospitals, and any other group who doesnt have an MD at the top level.
Australia.
yeah! that’s what I am thinking too, have been for years now. but at the same time babies are booming in the area (not russia, but east eu) so obviously a lot of people think differently.
You say booming ? But every woman needs to have 2.1.on average to have a stable population, so “booming” would be 4-8 at least, per woman. Is it that high ? Hungary ?
Australia’s first female member of it’s federal parliment had 13 kids for example, my mother was one of 8, I was one of three, my brother has 2, my sister and I none.
ok, not booming in that sense. but in comparison to what would I expect from the circumstances
If AI and robots will take over so many jobs, why is a declining birthrate a bad thing, in the long term?
depends on where its decling, if its only like elderly left and the young not reproducing thats would be a problem.
I don’t think ruzies are worried about technologies they can’t even afford.
Because current society is built on the assumption that around 4 workers will support 1 person with social benefits like retirement money, healtcare or unemployment benefits. Robots are already used in many factories but don’t pay any of those. The robots will produce goods cheaper than humans, however corporations will own the robots, and still charge you the same price for the goods while receiving a larger margin.
So… you’re saying that… capitalism is the problem???
because all wars are a war of attrition. the country with the largest military or the deepest pockets always wins.
Kinda rough to have babies if most of your men are being turned into fertilizer.
Invades the breadbasket of Europe, accidentally makes their crops even better.
Russian meat to sunflower oil pipeline
It amuses me that world leaders pretend to be surprised by declining birth rates. They know perfectly well that it’s because of their and/or their neighbors policies. The environment is being poisoned, and possibly destroyed. People are reluctant to bring a child into this world, and I think they’re right to be.
Also the average person can’t afford a kid anymore because all the money is hoarded for the rich.
almost all of them avoiding the discussion why its happening instead of trying to enact anti-abortion laws, or punishing peopel for not having children.
I haven’t read recent research on this, but at least until a decade or so ago, consciously not having children is a very small part of this. It’s more about economic outlooks and the immense pressure of expecting both parents of working full time and raising kids at the same time. Or wanting to have two kids, but putting off the decision so long that the chance of not having successful pregnancies rises a lot.
And even ones that want kids take one look at the economy and their bank accounts, and decide to wait until both look better, because they want to be able to afford the kids a happy childhood. The worst thing for population growth is giving people the ability to choose when, if ever, to get kids, and an environment they don’t want to have them in.
Two ways to fix that issue. Which one is used tells a lot.
also, people don’t got the space or the time to fuck
I mean technically you could solve the space issue by making sex less taboo
And finally removing the stigma associated with premature ejaculation. It’s called efficiency, maybe look it up.
Nahh people will always bu fcukib’, its just contraception, it’s often why the “moral arm of government” /s aka religions, go after contraception.
yes but they won’t
Speak for yourself
Time, sure, but how much space do you need to fuck?
more than the back seat of a car
deleted by creator
“Nooooo! Keep pumping out babies to feed to the capitalism meat grinder!!”
But it’s unthinkable for these leaders to change the policies that gave them the power and wealth they desire, so they’re gonna run with it until it falls apart, no matter the cost for everyone else.
That’s not a good look…
yea putin, fuck the world up and then complain that people are not making kids. we will all die in our own filth when the infrastructure collapses and you can wipe your ass with all that money and power
Even russian women don’t like russians.
I think the implication is actually that there’s a marked dropoff of eligible young Russian men. To preserve a generation, Russia might soon need to use more North Koreans on the Ukrainian front, but that comes with its own problems and risks.
It’s weird that Putin’s avoiding peace negotiations, as he more than anyone needs to find a way to scale back the war effort before his hold on power begins to waver. I get that he needs to save face while doing so, but he’s not gonna get conditions more favorable than a Trump administration, so the clock is ticking.
Consider that he might not want it to end. If it ends, a wartime economy is no longer an excuse/distraction and he’d have to contend more with the disaster he’s created.
i think kim stopped givign greedy putin more orcs. putin is running out of ethnic russians sooner or later.
No one wants their children to grow up in a corrupt Oligarchy.
…Wow.
So what’s the tankie angle to this? From that perspective, the war is objectively awful for Russia, even if all the stated war goals are true.
The tankie angle is that it’s NATO’s fault. Would never have happened if mean old west hadn’t invaded Ukraine and genocided Russian-speakers who are ethnically and linguistically identical to Ukrainians but also totally different and superior but also must be defended by daddy Vladdy.
And also Ukraine is an inseparable part of Russia, especially Crimea. Khrushchev was only kidding when he gave Crimea to Ukraine, which isn’t a real country.
And the west totally broke its verbal promise that no one’s ever heard to never allow another country into NATO. But The Budapest Memorandum wasn’t worth the paper it was written on. For some reason.
You just don’t understand Russian history. Russia has a very long memory. When it comes to grievances. Theirs.
You’re just russophobic.
I don’t think I’ve ever gotten one of them to even acknowledge the Budapest memorandum.
Though I do like to point out that they’re the biggest western chauvinists ever if they genuinely think NATO somehow forced putin into emptying Russia’s soviet stocks of vehicles and ammo in the most disastrous invasion in recent history.
Right? It makes Afganistan (the Soviet and US one) look like nothing. A calamity doesnt even begin to describe it.
Ugh, you said that way too well.
Still (again, rolling with the reasoning), it’s an existential problem, no matter who’s fault it is or how much of a victim they are or how much fatalism they’ve accepted…
The beloved and benevolent putin is merely protecting the country from the overpopulation seen in the west.
There’s no overpopulation in the west. Fertility rates are too low to maintain the current population.
Well, they didn’t say the angle had to be factual.
You got that right!
That’s why they want all of the immigrants out, they are taking over the white numbers. It’s all fucking racism.
Yes. If they get people angry at immigrants “taking over their land” then the people ignore the real problem (the wealthy elite).
So what’s the tankie angle to this?
“Sure this news is bad, but what about this non sequitur?”
“see! Putin is pro environment! Less people is better!”
“Can’t have racism if there are no remaining races!”
Ah, the Genghis Khan defence. Bold move!
war is always bad for the working class. nothing new here.
Even a victory is strategic defeat for Russia.
Honestly, few things are more Russian than being defeated.
The takeaway is that the already catastrophic demographic issues they were facing are becoming pointedly worse because of how they’re conducting the war, amongst other things
Are you really claiming that sending healthy young men into the meat grinder is detrimental to birth rates? No wonder why they need to kidnap Ukranian children.
I don’t think they need to, they just recognized an opportunity to get better children without having to figure out how to make better ones themselves.
It’s all a consequence of Western decadence, of course.
deleted by creator
Tankie angle: Any nation that becomes wealthy has the issue of declining birth rates. Putin is just soooooooooo great of a leader, he made every single Russian a trillionaire over night. Everything is better under Putin. Why can’t you see the objective truth? Russia is better than any other nation. That’s why I live in Europe and never intend to return. I don’t see the problem here. Banned for being a reactionary pig. Give money to me.
Tf does tankie even mean at this point? As a communist, I’m not on the side of any state, I’m on the side of the people dying needlessly in both countries. Anyone who identifies themselves as a communist and has more than 2 brain cells should know that this isn’t a football match where you root for your favorite team. Aside from the fact that russia isn’t the USSR anymore anyway, it’s just another capitalist country. Both governments suck but the Ukrainian one wasn’t at fault for this war at all.
Both governments suck
lmao
it looks like thier content, is more like conservatives than not, probably a con disguised as someone on the left?
“Tankie” means “person who, in a confrontation between citizens and tanks, roots for the tanks”. It’s more a reference to a person’s underlying authoritarianism rather than communism per se. The main reason it’s conflated with communism/marxism is because capitalism has, conceptually, staked a claim to the protectorship of individualism, which is assumed to be desirable. And because this claim is unchallenged, anything which stands against capitalism is assumed to therefore be inherently authoritarian. There is some merit to this claim and these assumptions, but to what extent, I couldn’t say. I’m not that smart.
I mean, billions of people would disagree with you. Many would say Ukraine and their western backers are at fault.
But theoretically, I am struggling to picture how Russia’a war goals (again, accepting every reason for its continuation from Russia) could possibly be beneficial to Russia, and the um oppressed Ukrainian people, in light of this measurable effect on demographics. Whatever the reason for Russia staying in Ukraine is, even with the most extreme sympathetic view of Russia and their position, it is clearly not worth it, and they should just capitulate an pull out for their own benefit.
and they should just capitulate an pull out for their own benefit.
Sounds like they’re already pulling out too much.
They would probably agree
